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>i can't log in to any of my banks without my phone. Don't know about banks in Europe but in USA, I can log into Bank Of America and JP Morgan Chase without a

by jasode 4y ago

>i can't log in to any of my banks without my phone. Don't know about banks in Europe but in USA, I can log into Bank Of America and JP Morgan Chase without any phone authentication. If I reformat my harddrive or buy a new computer and the bank doesn't recognize the web browser because no previous cookie has been found, the website will generate a one-time code and send it to my email address. I then enter that security code and the web browser is "recognized" without further issue. The smartphone was not needed in any step. EDIT ADD: I did open my bank accounts before 2007 and thus before the smartphone era. Because of that, there may be a possibility that my logins are "grandfathered in" to not require any smartphone app authentication. It's possible that opening new accounts today with BofA/Chase require smartphones but somebody else would have to confirm/deny that.

Dr_ReD 4y ago
In Italy it's a disaster. You need the phone /and/ their specific app, for mostly everything. From burgers, to banks and everything in between...
- jesprenj 4y ago
  The biggest bank in Slovenia also requires an app, but I wrote a webapp that implements the reverse engineered protocol the bank uses in the mobile app (the protocol is basically a TOTP implementation brought from a private company).
NaughtyShiba 4y ago
In Europe we have it in few countries. In my case - You enter your unique ID (6 numbers), then I’ve to type 4-number PIN on my phone. There’s also verification-number shown on both sides, to compare authenticity . When approving payments, it also shows details and requires longer PIN code. Much easier than earlier versions. And authentication provider can be used at Insurancy, e-government, e-signing and other services.
bryanrasmussen 4y ago
I can log into my bank without my phone in Denmark, but they are pretty much getting rid of that capability. Supposedly more 'secure'
- Freak_NL 4y ago
  That's code for 'cheaper'. Banks in the Netherlands are constantly trying to push all their customers to their apps, some (like ING) are actively trying to get rid of their alternative (but keep getting somewhat forced to offer it), and some (like BUNQ and KNAB) are 'smartphone only' from the start. Cryptographically, the idea of a discrete piece of hardware that uses the chip in your debit card to generate secure responses is fairly sound. And if smartphones didn't exist, it would be an unquestioned piece of technology that might even be commodified to the point that any such device could be used by all banks in the country. But smartphones exist, and having the customer loan the banks their hardware (which is often replaced within five years, so free updates too!) is quite attractive. No more hardware to support!
daneel_w 4y ago
My Swedish bank offers two methods. One is the nationwide e-identification system called BankID - used for loads of commerce/governmental/identification/authentication in Sweden - which requires Internet access and works on computers as well as smartphones. The other method uses a discrete HOTP-type device (with a personalized login card) which accepts a challenge code from the bank login page and outputs a digested authentication response. As far as I know, all major banks in Sweden offer both or at least one of these two methods. In the past a lot of banks here used OTP scratch cards, and would automatically send you a new one in the mail when you used one of the 10 last codes or so on the card.
nonamesleft 4y ago
A bank in Finland: they try to push their authenticator which doesn't work on my phone (de-googleized android and too old),but they have retained the option of using an OTP code list + sms, previously it was just OTP code list, but due to some silly directives they added sms. Authenticating with bank OTP also work for government and other stuff. (Common here as there is no state authentication system other than some failed id cards afaik.)
- Ekaros 4y ago
  I really never got the point of the SMS. If I was deciding it I would have mandated that authentication can't be on the same device payment happens. Just to see how they solve that issue...
duxup 4y ago
Similar experience in the US with the banks I’ve used. I can simply use the PC without involving my phone. Also if all else fails I can go in to the bank and take care of things.
PaulDavisThe1st 4y ago
I had a Chase account and for some years was able to use email for 2FA. Somewhere around 2019, they changed their requirements and forced SMS for 2FA. Since I don't use a (SIM-ed) phone and since my wife's phone number was already known to them, I had to pull all of my liquid savings out of the account and move it elsewhere. I will never bank with an institution that requires SMS for 2FA.
- jasode 4y ago
  > Somewhere around 2019, they changed their requirements and forced SMS for 2FA. I just logged into Chase via desktop web browser and there's not a 2FA requirement. I also deliberately used a different computer and got the familiar security prompt of "We don't recognize this device": https://imgur.com/a/jKM4MPq https://imgur.com/a/jKM4MPq I see that sending the challenge code via email is not in the list but there's an option to call them for it. It's more inconvenient but it looks like neither SMS text nor a mandatory Chase smartphone authenticator app is required.

by jasode 4y ago

Dr_ReD 4y ago

In Italy it's a disaster. You need the phone /and/ their specific app, for mostly everything. From burgers, to banks and everything in between...

jesprenj 4y ago
The biggest bank in Slovenia also requires an app, but I wrote a webapp that implements the reverse engineered protocol the bank uses in the mobile app (the protocol is basically a TOTP implementation brought from a private company).

NaughtyShiba 4y ago

In Europe we have it in few countries. In my case - You enter your unique ID (6 numbers), then I’ve to type 4-number PIN on my phone. There’s also verification-number shown on both sides, to compare authenticity . When approving payments, it also shows details and requires longer PIN code. Much easier than earlier versions. And authentication provider can be used at Insurancy, e-government, e-signing and other services.

bryanrasmussen 4y ago

I can log into my bank without my phone in Denmark, but they are pretty much getting rid of that capability. Supposedly more 'secure'

Freak_NL 4y ago
That's code for 'cheaper'. Banks in the Netherlands are constantly trying to push all their customers to their apps, some (like ING) are actively trying to get rid of their alternative (but keep getting somewhat forced to offer it), and some (like BUNQ and KNAB) are 'smartphone only' from the start. Cryptographically, the idea of a discrete piece of hardware that uses the chip in your debit card to generate secure responses is fairly sound. And if smartphones didn't exist, it would be an unquestioned piece of technology that might even be commodified to the point that any such device could be used by all banks in the country. But smartphones exist, and having the customer loan the banks their hardware (which is often replaced within five years, so free updates too!) is quite attractive. No more hardware to support!

daneel_w 4y ago

My Swedish bank offers two methods. One is the nationwide e-identification system called BankID - used for loads of commerce/governmental/identification/authentication in Sweden - which requires Internet access and works on computers as well as smartphones. The other method uses a discrete HOTP-type device (with a personalized login card) which accepts a challenge code from the bank login page and outputs a digested authentication response. As far as I know, all major banks in Sweden offer both or at least one of these two methods. In the past a lot of banks here used OTP scratch cards, and would automatically send you a new one in the mail when you used one of the 10 last codes or so on the card.

nonamesleft 4y ago

A bank in Finland: they try to push their authenticator which doesn't work on my phone (de-googleized android and too old),but they have retained the option of using an OTP code list + sms, previously it was just OTP code list, but due to some silly directives they added sms. Authenticating with bank OTP also work for government and other stuff. (Common here as there is no state authentication system other than some failed id cards afaik.)

Ekaros 4y ago
I really never got the point of the SMS. If I was deciding it I would have mandated that authentication can't be on the same device payment happens. Just to see how they solve that issue...

duxup 4y ago

Similar experience in the US with the banks I’ve used. I can simply use the PC without involving my phone. Also if all else fails I can go in to the bank and take care of things.

PaulDavisThe1st 4y ago

I had a Chase account and for some years was able to use email for 2FA. Somewhere around 2019, they changed their requirements and forced SMS for 2FA. Since I don't use a (SIM-ed) phone and since my wife's phone number was already known to them, I had to pull all of my liquid savings out of the account and move it elsewhere. I will never bank with an institution that requires SMS for 2FA.

jasode 4y ago
> Somewhere around 2019, they changed their requirements and forced SMS for 2FA. I just logged into Chase via desktop web browser and there's not a 2FA requirement. I also deliberately used a different computer and got the familiar security prompt of "We don't recognize this device": https://imgur.com/a/jKM4MPq https://imgur.com/a/jKM4MPq I see that sending the challenge code via email is not in the list but there's an option to call them for it. It's more inconvenient but it looks like neither SMS text nor a mandatory Chase smartphone authenticator app is required.