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“Money laundering” is a fake crime designed to make it easier to prosecute people who may or may not also have committed real crimes.

by prvit 4y ago

moron4hire 4y ago
Yeah, sure, and taxation is theft. Got it.
- drexlspivey 4y ago
  Yeah, sure, and sending money to protestors means you are a terrorist. Got it.
  - dang 4y ago
    Please don't respond to a bad comment by breaking the site guidelines yourself. That only makes things worse. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- dang 4y ago
  Would you please stop breaking the site guidelines like this? We've had to ask you several times before. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
Barrin92 4y ago
Sorry to disappoint but money laundering is very much a real, federal offense. (most other jurisdictions have equivalent laws) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Money_Laundering_Control_Act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Money_Laundering_Control_Act
- throwaway0a5e 4y ago
  The point that went right over the head of you and the head of the other authoritarian that he is responding to is that there is no victim, not even a risk of a victim or any other bad "externality" (to use a word I know you people love) to money laundering just as a standalone act. The crime is defined in statute as a matter of convenience for the state because having privacy regarding where money comes from/goes makes it harder for them to prosecute other "real" crimes so they define that privacy as criminal in and of itself. But there is nothing inherently bad about the act of laundering in and of itself (unless you believe in guilt/badness by association) hence why he is referring to it as a "fake crime". Obscuring the sources of one's money is no more of a standalone crime than encrypting one's data is.
  - moron4hire 4y ago
    That's a bit like saying there is nothing inherently wrong with cleaning up a dead body, you don't want to just leave dead bodies to sit around and rot, so therefore "tampering with a crime scene" is a "fake crime".
    - prvit 4y ago
      It’s a bit absurd to prosecute a murderer for trying to conceal their crime, no?
      - gilrain 4y ago
        No…
      - ncmncm 4y ago
        Yet, it is done. Just not always. Obstruction of Justice is a crime. As is failing to report income from a crime, on your taxes. But the woman who ordered the videotapes of US torture sessions erased was appointed head of CIA, instead of being prosecuted. Meanwhile, the whistleblower Jeffrey Skilling was charged with mishandling information that was only classified after he last touched it.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
  - Barrin92 4y ago
    >The crime is defined in statute as a matter of convenience for the state because having privacy regarding where money comes from/goes makes it harder for them to prosecute other "real" crimes so they define that privacy as criminal in and of itself. Of course and that's a very understandable thing. Legibility and transparency are the basis of prosecuting almost any crime. it's why companies are forced to keep records and do accounting, why there's limits on anonimity and so on. That didn't go over my head at all, it's perfectly reasonable. Tools that exist almost exclusively to facilitate criminal activity and render impossible the capacity of the state to detect such activity are 'inherently pretty bad'. Imagine if someone tried to sell a vehicle that's invisible and that would stop border security from doing its job. Pretty unpopular I'd bet. Are you also surprised that forgery is a crime despite the fact that harm is usually done when that forgery is used? What is this, the "guns don't kill people" of bookkeeping?
- dismalpedigree 4y ago
  I’m reminded of the scene in the movie Blow when he is arguing with the judge that its not a real crime. Judge: Unfortunately for you, the line you crossed was real and the plants you brought with you were illegal, so your bail is twenty thousand dollars.
tomjen3 4y ago
There is absolutely no reason to downvote OP for stating an opinion. He didn't say it was the law. I will equally say that being busted for smoking weed is a fake crime, and that doesn't mean you don't get arrested for it. It means that you _shouldn't_ get arrested for it.

“Money laundering” is a fake crime designed to make it easier to prosecute people who may or may not also have committed real crimes.

by prvit 4y ago

“Money laundering” is a fake crime designed to make it easier to prosecute people who may or may not also have committed real crimes.

moron4hire 4y ago

Yeah, sure, and taxation is theft. Got it.

drexlspivey 4y ago
Yeah, sure, and sending money to protestors means you are a terrorist. Got it.
- dang 4y ago
  Please don't respond to a bad comment by breaking the site guidelines yourself. That only makes things worse. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
dang 4y ago
Would you please stop breaking the site guidelines like this? We've had to ask you several times before. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Barrin92 4y ago

Sorry to disappoint but money laundering is very much a real, federal offense. (most other jurisdictions have equivalent laws) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Money_Laundering_Control_Act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Money_Laundering_Control_Act

throwaway0a5e 4y ago
The point that went right over the head of you and the head of the other authoritarian that he is responding to is that there is no victim, not even a risk of a victim or any other bad "externality" (to use a word I know you people love) to money laundering just as a standalone act. The crime is defined in statute as a matter of convenience for the state because having privacy regarding where money comes from/goes makes it harder for them to prosecute other "real" crimes so they define that privacy as criminal in and of itself. But there is nothing inherently bad about the act of laundering in and of itself (unless you believe in guilt/badness by association) hence why he is referring to it as a "fake crime". Obscuring the sources of one's money is no more of a standalone crime than encrypting one's data is.
- moron4hire 4y ago
  That's a bit like saying there is nothing inherently wrong with cleaning up a dead body, you don't want to just leave dead bodies to sit around and rot, so therefore "tampering with a crime scene" is a "fake crime".
  - prvit 4y ago
    It’s a bit absurd to prosecute a murderer for trying to conceal their crime, no?
    - gilrain 4y ago
      No…
    - ncmncm 4y ago
      Yet, it is done. Just not always. Obstruction of Justice is a crime. As is failing to report income from a crime, on your taxes. But the woman who ordered the videotapes of US torture sessions erased was appointed head of CIA, instead of being prosecuted. Meanwhile, the whistleblower Jeffrey Skilling was charged with mishandling information that was only classified after he last touched it.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
- Barrin92 4y ago
  >The crime is defined in statute as a matter of convenience for the state because having privacy regarding where money comes from/goes makes it harder for them to prosecute other "real" crimes so they define that privacy as criminal in and of itself. Of course and that's a very understandable thing. Legibility and transparency are the basis of prosecuting almost any crime. it's why companies are forced to keep records and do accounting, why there's limits on anonimity and so on. That didn't go over my head at all, it's perfectly reasonable. Tools that exist almost exclusively to facilitate criminal activity and render impossible the capacity of the state to detect such activity are 'inherently pretty bad'. Imagine if someone tried to sell a vehicle that's invisible and that would stop border security from doing its job. Pretty unpopular I'd bet. Are you also surprised that forgery is a crime despite the fact that harm is usually done when that forgery is used? What is this, the "guns don't kill people" of bookkeeping?
dismalpedigree 4y ago
I’m reminded of the scene in the movie Blow when he is arguing with the judge that its not a real crime. Judge: Unfortunately for you, the line you crossed was real and the plants you brought with you were illegal, so your bail is twenty thousand dollars.

tomjen3 4y ago

There is absolutely no reason to downvote OP for stating an opinion. He didn't say it was the law. I will equally say that being busted for smoking weed is a fake crime, and that doesn't mean you don't get arrested for it. It means that you _shouldn't_ get arrested for it.