4 ms·

> That is literally the traditional view of the Catholic Church on marriage Can you elaborate on that? Living as an unmarried couple is not very catholic AFAIC

by zwirbl 4y ago

> That is literally the traditional view of the Catholic Church on marriage Can you elaborate on that? Living as an unmarried couple is not very catholic AFAICT, and when not in a relationship, how should you marry?

lbrito 4y ago
Yes, needless to say an unmarried couple is not what I was referring to. I'm saying that for a long time people have known that not everyone is cut out for marriage, and that it has never really been seen as "the only path". I don't understand your other remarks.
- zwirbl 4y ago
  So it's "the only path" if in a relationship, with the alternatives being living in sin or not having a relationship. That is really very traditional Catholicism
  - irrational 4y ago
    I think they may be referring to the celibate life of a priest/monk/nun. Maybe.
- em-bee 4y ago
  but then what has changed?
michaelt 4y ago
Check out 1 Corinthians 7:25-39 [1] I've heard there was a time, ~2000 years ago, when people thought the second coming of christ was so close they were only being asked to be celibate for a year or two, and marriage was only there for people who couldn't manage that. [1] https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Corinthians+7&version=ESV https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Corinthians...
shp0ngle 4y ago
Yeah of course. The alternative to marrying is living a celibate life, which is seen in Catholic Church as preferable to marriage. Having sex outside of marriage (and, for pleasure only) is of course wrong. As is using contraceptives; as that moves sex to just pleasure.
- zwirbl 4y ago
  No wonder the Catholic church is losing members at an unprecedented rate
  - swat535 4y ago
    I attend my parish often and it is true that a lot of people are leaving but to be honest it doesn't bother me much. As Catholics, if we spend our time worrying about "the numbers" then we've lost the purpose of what it means to be a member of a community. It's not about programs it's about people. In my (entirely anecdotal) observation, boomers were the last generation to be raised with social pressure to appear to be religious, in communities where Catholic traditions and the Church were a central and reasonably respected part of life. They got married relatively young, baptized their kids and maybe sent them to Catholic schools all to keep their own parents happy, but didn't pressure their kids in the same way. As the boomers got to middle age and figured out their own way to live, they dropped the pretence. In parallel, the church largely retreated from public life, education, politics, healthcare etc. It's easy to blame this on the Church or the boomers but it's part of a wider trend of community and common institutions losing their hold. People move further away from family, have less friends, participation in community activities is down across the board, the self-sufficient nuclear family has been pushed as the ideal since the 50s and cultural gatekeeping or telling someone what to do in their own home is the biggest sin. It's all a trade-off for getting rid of some of the genuinely more awful parts of the pre-war era.
  - shp0ngle 4y ago
    Eh we are around for few thousand of years and we have been through worse. “And if your right hand should be your downfall, cut it off and throw it away; for it will do you less harm to lose one part of yourself than to have your whole body go to hell.”

by zwirbl 4y ago

lbrito 4y ago

Yes, needless to say an unmarried couple is not what I was referring to. I'm saying that for a long time people have known that not everyone is cut out for marriage, and that it has never really been seen as "the only path". I don't understand your other remarks.

zwirbl 4y ago
So it's "the only path" if in a relationship, with the alternatives being living in sin or not having a relationship. That is really very traditional Catholicism
- irrational 4y ago
  I think they may be referring to the celibate life of a priest/monk/nun. Maybe.
em-bee 4y ago
but then what has changed?

michaelt 4y ago

Check out 1 Corinthians 7:25-39 [1] I've heard there was a time, ~2000 years ago, when people thought the second coming of christ was so close they were only being asked to be celibate for a year or two, and marriage was only there for people who couldn't manage that. [1] https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Corinthians+7&version=ESV https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Corinthians...

shp0ngle 4y ago

Yeah of course. The alternative to marrying is living a celibate life, which is seen in Catholic Church as preferable to marriage. Having sex outside of marriage (and, for pleasure only) is of course wrong. As is using contraceptives; as that moves sex to just pleasure.

zwirbl 4y ago
No wonder the Catholic church is losing members at an unprecedented rate
- swat535 4y ago
  I attend my parish often and it is true that a lot of people are leaving but to be honest it doesn't bother me much. As Catholics, if we spend our time worrying about "the numbers" then we've lost the purpose of what it means to be a member of a community. It's not about programs it's about people. In my (entirely anecdotal) observation, boomers were the last generation to be raised with social pressure to appear to be religious, in communities where Catholic traditions and the Church were a central and reasonably respected part of life. They got married relatively young, baptized their kids and maybe sent them to Catholic schools all to keep their own parents happy, but didn't pressure their kids in the same way. As the boomers got to middle age and figured out their own way to live, they dropped the pretence. In parallel, the church largely retreated from public life, education, politics, healthcare etc. It's easy to blame this on the Church or the boomers but it's part of a wider trend of community and common institutions losing their hold. People move further away from family, have less friends, participation in community activities is down across the board, the self-sufficient nuclear family has been pushed as the ideal since the 50s and cultural gatekeeping or telling someone what to do in their own home is the biggest sin. It's all a trade-off for getting rid of some of the genuinely more awful parts of the pre-war era.
- shp0ngle 4y ago
  Eh we are around for few thousand of years and we have been through worse. “And if your right hand should be your downfall, cut it off and throw it away; for it will do you less harm to lose one part of yourself than to have your whole body go to hell.”