4 ms·

Pandemic did something that was never possible, show that doing effective work without having to physically put yourself in a specific location was always possi

Pandemic did something that was never possible, show that doing effective work without having to physically put yourself in a specific location was always possible. Higher productivity and record company profits show that it is totally possible. Any push towards bringing people in to work is just about preference now. The other thing that working remote has done is that it has disillusioned a lot of people. It’s harder to drink the cool aid when you can easily distance yourself. This has also meant all the corporate lies and bullshit are easily called out. And that is where the management struggles and wants to push for in person work. Employees have taken back a lot of power from the management and that is something that doesn’t sit well with them.

sam0x17 4y ago
And don't forget WFH vs working in the office are not two sides of a coin where you can pick and choose your adventure and it costs about the same -- working from an office has notably lower productivity (look at the non-FANG studies), costs way, way more for the employee and the employer, and has an unconsciounable carbon footprint (commuting, running AC in the offic 24/7, real estate, vehicles, etc etc).
- DiggyJohnson 4y ago
  I think it’s important to remember that this cannot be true of all jobs and job roles.
  - Avshalom 4y ago
    Sure but as a stock boy who absolutely can not do my job remotely: anyone that can do their job at home should.
    - sam0x17 4y ago
      If you were remote controlling a robot you probably could
  - sam0x17 4y ago
    Yes, but it could definitely be true of literally every single desk job. There are also many manufacturing, retail, and warehouse jobs that could be done by someone controlling a robot over the internet. If that becomes practical one could envision a 100% WFH economy. IMO it's an inevitability and is way way more practical than autonomous robots replacing jobs.
- hotpotamus 4y ago
  Why non-FANG studies? Are FANG companies more effective at using people in office?
- yibg 4y ago
  Can you link to some of these studies? I feel like a lot of articles / comments are pointing to said studies, but rarely link to them. Looking at the people and companies around me I would personally take such a broad conclusion with a grain of salt.
- munk-a 4y ago
  While I love to hate on forced-in-office work as much as the next guy - the AC point is actually the opposite of the truth. During the hottest hours of the day it's more efficient to cool down a single large space for many people than have everyone running their AC at home - now if your office likes to keep the temperature at 14C and forces most employees to bring in a space heater to keep from getting chills then that's a perfectly valid point... but most offices keep a "reasonable" temperature.
  - nicoburns 4y ago
    That assumes that homes have AC. Here in the UK it’s common for offices to have AC, but almost no homes do.
    - jjj123 4y ago
      SF too.
  - LordNibbler 4y ago
    how about the offset on all the vehicles on the road? People still need to cool their homes reasonably while at work (people, pets) when they're not there so the difference might be less important. also this makes the assumption you're living in a place that needs AC. Commute is all year, AC usage maybe not.
  - boardwaalk 4y ago
    I can believe as a one-to-one comparison, cooling an office is more efficient. But people aren't turning off their home AC when they go into the office. If you figure that a majority of people won't even schedule their thermostat due to laziness, having other people at home, etc, and if even if they do, having their house cool down for their arrival home (5:30-6PM?) is still during a pretty hot time of day. I would be pretty surprised if offset you could anywhere near the cooling of an entire office building considering all that. I'm coming from the perspective of Texas where it's 100F effectively all day during the summer and I wouldn't move the thermostat from it's usual daytime setting of ~76F past maybe ~80F. Any more and it would take hours to cool back down.
colechristensen 4y ago
Much of what middle management does is justify its existence. Without being in the office, it is a whole lot harder to justify this existence for people who spend their days in meetings talking about what will happen in other meetings. You can significantly cut these roles out and gain productivity.
nuclearnice3 4y ago
I agree. The pandemic weakened the position of a lot of corporate bullshitters. On the other hand, if management can figure out this asynchronous, remote, results-driven world, they gain a lot of flexibility w.r.t to labor. It's hard to find skilled people. If you can hire globally, it should be a big advantage.
daniel_iversen 4y ago
Remote work isn't just about the company results though (their profits, their effectivity), the point they're making in the article, which I believe in, is the effect on the human wellbeing. On average a lot of people might benefit from a more intimate/collegial environment (which the article says), and depending on your personality and skills it may be harder for some young people to get ahead when not being in the office (they might not be noticed, they might not build the right networks or be part of serendipitous important conversations etc.). I think we're moving fast to a world where many knowledge workers are becoming zero-career fend-for-yourself, kpi-only, you-wont-have-an-office, we-dont-know-you, "widget cranking" gig workers, and trust me that only benefits the shareholders and "the company"..
- dmitrygr 4y ago
  > On average a lot of people might benefit from a more intimate/collegial environment I'll decide myself what's better for me "on average" thanks
  - daniel_iversen 4y ago
    You're welcome :) hence why I'm NOT speaking about "you" or "me".. and I'm not talking about the fluffy social side only - there's a lot of interesting studies (incl our own below) and many areas of modern work sucks and that it seems like the more we've moved to remote work in the last couple of years the more we've seen increases in things like working late, doing duplicate work, time spent in unnecessary meetings[1]. Also, we've seen that working parents with children at home are also experiencing a higher level of imposter syndrome (67%) vs non-parents (57%)[2]. Suffice to say "remote work" isn't the answer for everyone and everything (and funnily enough if you read paper #2, turns out people prefer a mix) [1]: https://asana.com/resources/anatomy-of-work https://asana.com/resources/anatomy-of-work [2]: https://asana.com/resources/anatomy-of-work-summary https://asana.com/resources/anatomy-of-work-summary
- spaetzleesser 4y ago
  "I think we're moving fast to a world where many knowledge workers are becoming zero-career fend-for-yourself, kpi-only, you-wont-have-an-office, we-dont-know-you, "widget cranking" gig workers, and trust me that only benefits the shareholders and "the company".." Employers will do that anyway no matter you are at the office or not.
tartakovsky 4y ago
Just because profits are higher after the occurrence of working from home, doesn’t mean it is because of it. This is a common logical and statistical fallacy to attribute causality from observation.
- munk-a 4y ago
  That may be true - but at this point the crowd that yells "Working from home lowers productivity and wrecks the economy" is the one that's going to need to actually get some statistics to prove their point. Neither stance should be taken as a given and, additionally, it's going to vary from person to person - I know some people that were chomping at the bit to get back into the office because they exist best in that sort of a structured environment... and I know a lot who looked at their commute and said "Nah, I'll pass."
  - yibg 4y ago
    Anecdotally it also looks like productivity / output depends not just on the person but also the organization / team. Probably not feasible to say as a blanket statement either way if WFH is more or less productive.
  - tartakovsky 4y ago
    I agree with this comment. I think as we condition from profession to team to company culture - assuming there is anything causal with WFH - some may be more productive, while others less so.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
cmiles74 4y ago
I was surprised at how content-free Malcolm Gladwell's position on this really is. The bit about "feeling necessary" really grates and the bit about "sitting in your pajamas" strikes me reductive and borderline insulting. > “As we face the battle that all organizations are facing now in getting people back into the office, it’s really hard to explain this core psychological truth, which is we want you to have a feeling of belonging and to feel necessary,” he said. > Gladwell added that it was “not in your best interest to work at home.” > “I know it’s a hassle to come into the office, but if you’re just sitting in your pajamas in your bedroom, is that the work life you want to live?” he questioned. “Don’t you want to feel part of something?” This idea that if I don't sit through a boring and pointless commute, then sit in an office all day (no matter how much work may need to be done) in order to feel like I "belong" or that I'm "necessary" is entirely unhinged. The tone here that people just "don't know what's good for them" sounds pretty sanctimonious.
- polotics 4y ago
  Exactly! Frankly the format, tone, context, and delivery look like a low-effort shill by an author who's ran out of ideas.
- taylodl 4y ago
  I don't work in my pajamas and frankly I don't know anyone who does. My wardrobe is different these days - I wear a pair of comfortable shorts and a polo shirt. I'm groomed and professional. If I want a change of scenery I go to a coffee shop. It's been working out quite well for me and others on my team.
- gxs 4y ago
  I've become so cynical - I wouldn't be surprised if this is the media machine at work. How do we know that Gladwell isn't saying this at the behest of some third party in some way? Perhaps we'll see more and more public begin to shame working from home and in the end it's just big companies trying to turn the tide.
jayd16 4y ago
>Higher productivity and record company profits show that it is totally possible. Aren't we in a recession? What's the basis for this claim?
- kortilla 4y ago
  Both of those can be true if some industry is getting destroyed while tech flourishes.
- throwaway5959 4y ago
  A very productive recession. ;)
- okaram 4y ago
  BTW, if you are in the USA, no, we're not in a recession.
xtiansimon 4y ago
“Employees have taken back a lot of power from the management…” Power? The only power employees have is the power to quit en masse. A spasmodic riot. Mutiny—which no manager wants on their watch. If employees continue to WFH it’s still by the consent of the employer, even if it’s reluctant consent. At least that’s the case in New York, an “at-will employment” state. Maybe it’s different…in France

sam0x17 4y ago

And don't forget WFH vs working in the office are not two sides of a coin where you can pick and choose your adventure and it costs about the same -- working from an office has notably lower productivity (look at the non-FANG studies), costs way, way more for the employee and the employer, and has an unconsciounable carbon footprint (commuting, running AC in the offic 24/7, real estate, vehicles, etc etc).

DiggyJohnson 4y ago
I think it’s important to remember that this cannot be true of all jobs and job roles.
- Avshalom 4y ago
  Sure but as a stock boy who absolutely can not do my job remotely: anyone that can do their job at home should.
  - sam0x17 4y ago
    If you were remote controlling a robot you probably could
- sam0x17 4y ago
  Yes, but it could definitely be true of literally every single desk job. There are also many manufacturing, retail, and warehouse jobs that could be done by someone controlling a robot over the internet. If that becomes practical one could envision a 100% WFH economy. IMO it's an inevitability and is way way more practical than autonomous robots replacing jobs.
hotpotamus 4y ago
Why non-FANG studies? Are FANG companies more effective at using people in office?
yibg 4y ago
Can you link to some of these studies? I feel like a lot of articles / comments are pointing to said studies, but rarely link to them. Looking at the people and companies around me I would personally take such a broad conclusion with a grain of salt.
munk-a 4y ago
While I love to hate on forced-in-office work as much as the next guy - the AC point is actually the opposite of the truth. During the hottest hours of the day it's more efficient to cool down a single large space for many people than have everyone running their AC at home - now if your office likes to keep the temperature at 14C and forces most employees to bring in a space heater to keep from getting chills then that's a perfectly valid point... but most offices keep a "reasonable" temperature.
- nicoburns 4y ago
  That assumes that homes have AC. Here in the UK it’s common for offices to have AC, but almost no homes do.
  - jjj123 4y ago
    SF too.
- LordNibbler 4y ago
  how about the offset on all the vehicles on the road? People still need to cool their homes reasonably while at work (people, pets) when they're not there so the difference might be less important. also this makes the assumption you're living in a place that needs AC. Commute is all year, AC usage maybe not.
- boardwaalk 4y ago
  I can believe as a one-to-one comparison, cooling an office is more efficient. But people aren't turning off their home AC when they go into the office. If you figure that a majority of people won't even schedule their thermostat due to laziness, having other people at home, etc, and if even if they do, having their house cool down for their arrival home (5:30-6PM?) is still during a pretty hot time of day. I would be pretty surprised if offset you could anywhere near the cooling of an entire office building considering all that. I'm coming from the perspective of Texas where it's 100F effectively all day during the summer and I wouldn't move the thermostat from it's usual daytime setting of ~76F past maybe ~80F. Any more and it would take hours to cool back down.

colechristensen 4y ago

Much of what middle management does is justify its existence. Without being in the office, it is a whole lot harder to justify this existence for people who spend their days in meetings talking about what will happen in other meetings. You can significantly cut these roles out and gain productivity.

nuclearnice3 4y ago

I agree. The pandemic weakened the position of a lot of corporate bullshitters. On the other hand, if management can figure out this asynchronous, remote, results-driven world, they gain a lot of flexibility w.r.t to labor. It's hard to find skilled people. If you can hire globally, it should be a big advantage.

daniel_iversen 4y ago

Remote work isn't just about the company results though (their profits, their effectivity), the point they're making in the article, which I believe in, is the effect on the human wellbeing. On average a lot of people might benefit from a more intimate/collegial environment (which the article says), and depending on your personality and skills it may be harder for some young people to get ahead when not being in the office (they might not be noticed, they might not build the right networks or be part of serendipitous important conversations etc.). I think we're moving fast to a world where many knowledge workers are becoming zero-career fend-for-yourself, kpi-only, you-wont-have-an-office, we-dont-know-you, "widget cranking" gig workers, and trust me that only benefits the shareholders and "the company"..

dmitrygr 4y ago
> On average a lot of people might benefit from a more intimate/collegial environment I'll decide myself what's better for me "on average" thanks
- daniel_iversen 4y ago
  You're welcome :) hence why I'm NOT speaking about "you" or "me".. and I'm not talking about the fluffy social side only - there's a lot of interesting studies (incl our own below) and many areas of modern work sucks and that it seems like the more we've moved to remote work in the last couple of years the more we've seen increases in things like working late, doing duplicate work, time spent in unnecessary meetings[1]. Also, we've seen that working parents with children at home are also experiencing a higher level of imposter syndrome (67%) vs non-parents (57%)[2]. Suffice to say "remote work" isn't the answer for everyone and everything (and funnily enough if you read paper #2, turns out people prefer a mix) [1]: https://asana.com/resources/anatomy-of-work https://asana.com/resources/anatomy-of-work [2]: https://asana.com/resources/anatomy-of-work-summary https://asana.com/resources/anatomy-of-work-summary
spaetzleesser 4y ago
"I think we're moving fast to a world where many knowledge workers are becoming zero-career fend-for-yourself, kpi-only, you-wont-have-an-office, we-dont-know-you, "widget cranking" gig workers, and trust me that only benefits the shareholders and "the company".." Employers will do that anyway no matter you are at the office or not.

tartakovsky 4y ago

Just because profits are higher after the occurrence of working from home, doesn’t mean it is because of it. This is a common logical and statistical fallacy to attribute causality from observation.

munk-a 4y ago
That may be true - but at this point the crowd that yells "Working from home lowers productivity and wrecks the economy" is the one that's going to need to actually get some statistics to prove their point. Neither stance should be taken as a given and, additionally, it's going to vary from person to person - I know some people that were chomping at the bit to get back into the office because they exist best in that sort of a structured environment... and I know a lot who looked at their commute and said "Nah, I'll pass."
- yibg 4y ago
  Anecdotally it also looks like productivity / output depends not just on the person but also the organization / team. Probably not feasible to say as a blanket statement either way if WFH is more or less productive.
- tartakovsky 4y ago
  I agree with this comment. I think as we condition from profession to team to company culture - assuming there is anything causal with WFH - some may be more productive, while others less so.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

cmiles74 4y ago

I was surprised at how content-free Malcolm Gladwell's position on this really is. The bit about "feeling necessary" really grates and the bit about "sitting in your pajamas" strikes me reductive and borderline insulting. > “As we face the battle that all organizations are facing now in getting people back into the office, it’s really hard to explain this core psychological truth, which is we want you to have a feeling of belonging and to feel necessary,” he said. > Gladwell added that it was “not in your best interest to work at home.” > “I know it’s a hassle to come into the office, but if you’re just sitting in your pajamas in your bedroom, is that the work life you want to live?” he questioned. “Don’t you want to feel part of something?” This idea that if I don't sit through a boring and pointless commute, then sit in an office all day (no matter how much work may need to be done) in order to feel like I "belong" or that I'm "necessary" is entirely unhinged. The tone here that people just "don't know what's good for them" sounds pretty sanctimonious.

polotics 4y ago
Exactly! Frankly the format, tone, context, and delivery look like a low-effort shill by an author who's ran out of ideas.
taylodl 4y ago
I don't work in my pajamas and frankly I don't know anyone who does. My wardrobe is different these days - I wear a pair of comfortable shorts and a polo shirt. I'm groomed and professional. If I want a change of scenery I go to a coffee shop. It's been working out quite well for me and others on my team.
gxs 4y ago
I've become so cynical - I wouldn't be surprised if this is the media machine at work. How do we know that Gladwell isn't saying this at the behest of some third party in some way? Perhaps we'll see more and more public begin to shame working from home and in the end it's just big companies trying to turn the tide.

jayd16 4y ago

>Higher productivity and record company profits show that it is totally possible. Aren't we in a recession? What's the basis for this claim?

kortilla 4y ago
Both of those can be true if some industry is getting destroyed while tech flourishes.
throwaway5959 4y ago
A very productive recession. ;)
okaram 4y ago
BTW, if you are in the USA, no, we're not in a recession.

xtiansimon 4y ago

“Employees have taken back a lot of power from the management…” Power? The only power employees have is the power to quit en masse. A spasmodic riot. Mutiny—which no manager wants on their watch. If employees continue to WFH it’s still by the consent of the employer, even if it’s reluctant consent. At least that’s the case in New York, an “at-will employment” state. Maybe it’s different…in France