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Consumer, commonly found inkjets are absolutely crammed with.. I was going to say "dark patterns", but it's an euphemism when your product is being rendered unu

by 0x_rs 4y ago

Consumer, commonly found inkjets are absolutely crammed with.. I was going to say "dark patterns", but it's an euphemism when your product is being rendered unusable due to a fixed number in its firmware, so maybe.. criminal? They've been doing this for more than a decade and an half, and the rationale behind the ink pads does not hold up, at least in my experience.. being an incredibly easy replacement if they ever were a problem, you still have to get it officially serviced to have the page count reset, at an hefty price from what I recall. You also cannot use the scanner if it has one when the counter hits the limit. Luckily, there exist programs that give you ownership of the machine back, one of which I recall being named antipampers, that you can find un-demoed online too, and it sure came in handy all the times I had to resort to it for myself and others. Don't buy these printers.

moistly 4y ago
> You also cannot use the scanner if it has one when the counter hits the limit I’m surprised that there hasn’t been a class action lawsuit for that.
- smat 4y ago
  Appears to be common industry practice at least for entry level devices. My old HP has the same behavior. Cannot scan with a defective print head.
markdown 4y ago
> Don't buy these printers. Is there a list somewhere of printers that are neither user-hostile nor designed to scam customers out of their hard-earned money?
- seanw444 4y ago
  I hear the cheap Brother ones are decent actually. Not for sure though.
  - Double_a_92 4y ago
    Mine always feels the need to clean itself once a week. Which empties the ink tanks after a few months. And turning it completely off is also not an option, because then if feels the need to super clean itself which wastes the ink all at once...
    - oynqr 4y ago
      That's just a common inkjet problem. If you rarely print, laser is probably better for you.
    - mateo1 4y ago
      Head cleaning is a legit necessity with inkjets, and avoiding clogging is probably why it doesn't power off fully. Of course that doesn't negate all the other scams, like the cost of ink or the refusal to work with third party ink, print b&w without a color cartridge, scan without ink, etc etc... New low-cost HP printers come with a vendor-locked ink-as-a-service scheme (no I am not making this up) you can't opt out from. I bought a b&w duplex laser printer and use it with non-genuine toners. If you enjoy reading from paper its a good investment imho.
  - danielrpa 4y ago
    I have had the cheaper Brothers for a while- I upgraded mine to a wi-fi model after the first one broke 10 years in. Pretty happy with it, sure the first one broke after being moved around many times, but I got an enormous value out of it.
- zasdffaa 4y ago
  Odd that you had to throw 'hard-earned' in there like it adds anything (unless it does but I can't tell) A quick search gets prior discussion https://html.duckduckgo.com/html?q=drm%20free%20printers https://html.duckduckgo.com/html?q=drm%20free%20printers
  - the_third_wave 4y ago
    > Odd that you had to throw 'hard-earned' in there like it adds anything (unless it does but I can't tell) If money fell from the sky in abundance and could be exchanged for new printers there would be no problems with these shenanigans. Assuming that money is scarce and money spent on a printer means something else will have to remain on the back burner does change things.
    - zasdffaa 4y ago
      Point is, isn't all money 'hard earned' for us who don't inherit it (sadly the greatest majority of the population), I mean that's the point of money in capitalism, about allocation of scarce resources, so why even mention it.
      - Veen 4y ago
        > so why even mention it To emphasize and focus the reader's attention on a particular property of money the writer would like to highlight. Money has many properties, and emphasizing the relevant one helps the writer to communicate their meaning more clearly. It also helps to express the writer's frustration at the printer manufacturer's behavior. In that way, it serves much the same purpose as the irrelevant adverb "sadly" you added to your parenthetical aside.
        zasdffaa 4y ago
        > irrelevant adverb "sadly" you added to your parenthetical aside fair point. > Money has many properties Hmm. Never thought of this. Can you provide a link discussing these? I have no idea, economics is not my background and this sounds relevant.
- spoonjim 4y ago
  The Brother $100 black and white laser is quite civilized. And printers have come so far since the old days. I plug that motherfucker in and I can print to it from my phone, immediately!
  - BayAreaEscapee 4y ago
    I also own a couple of Brother black and white laser printers. They are quite durable and cheap to operate. Way way way better than any inkjet. The only complaint I have is that after a large number of pages the printer will insist that the toner cartridge needs to be replaced and will just stop printing, even if the printer output darkness is still acceptable. Quite annoying if you need to print urgently! Fortunately I found a youtube video with a work-around you can enter into the UI on the printer.
    - DocTomoe 4y ago
      At least with the Brother printers I've owned (and some of which I still do), they actually shine a light through a small bit of clear plastic in the toner cartridge. Taking that cartridge out, giving it a good shake (outside, no need for adding potentially cancer-inducing toner dust in your room), and putting it back in will make the printer work again.
- Rackedup 4y ago
  Really happy with my HP LaserJet Pro M15W Printer so far... Bought it only about 2 years ago but I print almost daily and didn't even have to replace the toner.

by 0x_rs 4y ago

moistly 4y ago

> You also cannot use the scanner if it has one when the counter hits the limit I’m surprised that there hasn’t been a class action lawsuit for that.

smat 4y ago
Appears to be common industry practice at least for entry level devices. My old HP has the same behavior. Cannot scan with a defective print head.

markdown 4y ago

> Don't buy these printers. Is there a list somewhere of printers that are neither user-hostile nor designed to scam customers out of their hard-earned money?

seanw444 4y ago
I hear the cheap Brother ones are decent actually. Not for sure though.
- Double_a_92 4y ago
  Mine always feels the need to clean itself once a week. Which empties the ink tanks after a few months. And turning it completely off is also not an option, because then if feels the need to super clean itself which wastes the ink all at once...
  - oynqr 4y ago
    That's just a common inkjet problem. If you rarely print, laser is probably better for you.
  - mateo1 4y ago
    Head cleaning is a legit necessity with inkjets, and avoiding clogging is probably why it doesn't power off fully. Of course that doesn't negate all the other scams, like the cost of ink or the refusal to work with third party ink, print b&w without a color cartridge, scan without ink, etc etc... New low-cost HP printers come with a vendor-locked ink-as-a-service scheme (no I am not making this up) you can't opt out from. I bought a b&w duplex laser printer and use it with non-genuine toners. If you enjoy reading from paper its a good investment imho.
- danielrpa 4y ago
  I have had the cheaper Brothers for a while- I upgraded mine to a wi-fi model after the first one broke 10 years in. Pretty happy with it, sure the first one broke after being moved around many times, but I got an enormous value out of it.
zasdffaa 4y ago
Odd that you had to throw 'hard-earned' in there like it adds anything (unless it does but I can't tell) A quick search gets prior discussion https://html.duckduckgo.com/html?q=drm%20free%20printers https://html.duckduckgo.com/html?q=drm%20free%20printers
- the_third_wave 4y ago
  > Odd that you had to throw 'hard-earned' in there like it adds anything (unless it does but I can't tell) If money fell from the sky in abundance and could be exchanged for new printers there would be no problems with these shenanigans. Assuming that money is scarce and money spent on a printer means something else will have to remain on the back burner does change things.
  - zasdffaa 4y ago
    Point is, isn't all money 'hard earned' for us who don't inherit it (sadly the greatest majority of the population), I mean that's the point of money in capitalism, about allocation of scarce resources, so why even mention it.
    - Veen 4y ago
      > so why even mention it To emphasize and focus the reader's attention on a particular property of money the writer would like to highlight. Money has many properties, and emphasizing the relevant one helps the writer to communicate their meaning more clearly. It also helps to express the writer's frustration at the printer manufacturer's behavior. In that way, it serves much the same purpose as the irrelevant adverb "sadly" you added to your parenthetical aside.
      - zasdffaa 4y ago
        > irrelevant adverb "sadly" you added to your parenthetical aside fair point. > Money has many properties Hmm. Never thought of this. Can you provide a link discussing these? I have no idea, economics is not my background and this sounds relevant.
spoonjim 4y ago
The Brother $100 black and white laser is quite civilized. And printers have come so far since the old days. I plug that motherfucker in and I can print to it from my phone, immediately!
- BayAreaEscapee 4y ago
  I also own a couple of Brother black and white laser printers. They are quite durable and cheap to operate. Way way way better than any inkjet. The only complaint I have is that after a large number of pages the printer will insist that the toner cartridge needs to be replaced and will just stop printing, even if the printer output darkness is still acceptable. Quite annoying if you need to print urgently! Fortunately I found a youtube video with a work-around you can enter into the UI on the printer.
  - DocTomoe 4y ago
    At least with the Brother printers I've owned (and some of which I still do), they actually shine a light through a small bit of clear plastic in the toner cartridge. Taking that cartridge out, giving it a good shake (outside, no need for adding potentially cancer-inducing toner dust in your room), and putting it back in will make the printer work again.
Rackedup 4y ago
Really happy with my HP LaserJet Pro M15W Printer so far... Bought it only about 2 years ago but I print almost daily and didn't even have to replace the toner.