4 ms·

Age is not the real reason. Perl was first released in 1987, while Python was released in 1991, Tcl in 1990, and Ruby in 1995. I believe that Perl's success is

Age is not the real reason. Perl was first released in 1987, while Python was released in 1991, Tcl in 1990, and Ruby in 1995. I believe that Perl's success is due to the fact that it was written to scratch an itch. Larry Wall didn't care much about making a pretty language. He cared about creating a useful language. To this end, it was picked up quickly by Unix junkies everywhere. The other big issue, that's often overlooked, is the Perl community itself. People working on Perl are really passionate about it. Spend some time reading the perl5-porters (p5p) archives, and you'll see for yourself.

jamesbritt 15y ago
Larry Wall didn't care much about making a pretty language. This suggests that Larry Wall was happy to create a kludgey language for the sake of just getting things done. I don't have any references around to back this up, but given Wall's background in linguistics, and his demonstrated interest in language features, I have to believe he was interested in creating a coherent, thoughtful, as well as practical, language. Perhaps you nor I find the results pretty per se, but the language does have its own aesthetic which apparently many find to have a kind of beauty.
- kamaal 15y ago
  >>This suggests that Larry Wall was happy to create a kludgey language for the sake of just getting things done. Don't really know what to reply to this. Is this your speculation, or do you have a citation to back this up. Have you had some programming experience in Perl? Perl is the only programming language(the other tool is emacs) I have learn't so far which gives exponential gains in productivity with a linear learning curve. No other scripting language remotely comes closer to Perl practicality and pragmatism in the real world. Python and Ruby aren't even closer. All beauty and other merely-for-talk stuff aside, For serious applications nothing is beating C++/Java in the larger scenario. And Python and Ruby never came to match Perl's glory. Python's glory is fading pretty quickly. The web crowd is going to the next cool framework. Ruby tends to be pretty famous these days. Perl is truly among those first things done right tools. Nothing will ever replace C, Lisp, Perl, Unix, Emacs kind of tools completely. Because whatever tries to replace them, ultimately ends up looking up very similar to them.
  - jamesbritt 15y ago
    Is this your speculation, or do you have a citation to back this up. As I wrote, "I don't have any references around to back this up." I used Perl for a few years about 10 years ago; was quite the perl evangelist at that job. Then I found Ruby, which won my heart. But I have a pick-cover copy of the book perl (yes, all lower case). And I've read the whole thing and liked Wall's jokes. :) Python's glory is fading pretty quickly. The web crowd is going to the next cool framework. Ruby tends to be pretty famous these days. Pure trolling. Because whatever tries to replace them, ultimately ends up looking up very similar to them. That's an amazing assertion for which I would like to see proof. FWIW, I don't think Haskell looks like any of those, a passing resemblance to Lisp notwithstanding. Perl, et al may have been done right, but it's myopic to think they are some sort of end point of perfection, if only because we don't know all the things we want to do, so we don't know all the things we need to have, "done right" or otherwise. "There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy."
    - chromatic 15y ago
      Perl, et al may have been done right, but it's myopic to think they are some sort of end point of perfection... I'm not sure anyone will argue that seriously. That's an amazing assertion for which I would like to see proof. It's probably not true for Perl 5's concurrency and parallelism features, such as they are. (You get fork() and POSIX-style shared memory with IPC or a queue or RPC or whatever, and you like it.) It's probably true for access to POSIX and other standards. (I can't remember the article here several months ago about how to write fast network code, but it's essentially "Embrace what Unix and Unix-like systems give you." It's not the article about the Varnish architecture.) It's almost definitely true for module repositories, where it's not enough to track dependencies and mirror downloadable code bundles. Testing, change management, dependency resolution tracking, and documentation formats and presentation systems are essential. Not even CTAN gets it as right as CPAN.
    - kamaal 15y ago
      Pure trolling. Call it whatever you like, but I have observed Python related posts/discussions experiencing a rapid decline. Clojure/Ruby et al are beginning to take more center stage now. In most discussions, which used to be generally a buzz with Python web frameworks these days doesn't even get a slight mention of Python. Nothing wrong here, Python was the trend of the near past. There are newer trends these days. And there will other newer trends in the future. That's how it is, every couple of years. Something new comes to replace the famous. That's how technology works. Now just because you don't like what you read, it doesn't automatically amount to trolling.

jamesbritt 15y ago

Larry Wall didn't care much about making a pretty language. This suggests that Larry Wall was happy to create a kludgey language for the sake of just getting things done. I don't have any references around to back this up, but given Wall's background in linguistics, and his demonstrated interest in language features, I have to believe he was interested in creating a coherent, thoughtful, as well as practical, language. Perhaps you nor I find the results pretty per se, but the language does have its own aesthetic which apparently many find to have a kind of beauty.

kamaal 15y ago
>>This suggests that Larry Wall was happy to create a kludgey language for the sake of just getting things done. Don't really know what to reply to this. Is this your speculation, or do you have a citation to back this up. Have you had some programming experience in Perl? Perl is the only programming language(the other tool is emacs) I have learn't so far which gives exponential gains in productivity with a linear learning curve. No other scripting language remotely comes closer to Perl practicality and pragmatism in the real world. Python and Ruby aren't even closer. All beauty and other merely-for-talk stuff aside, For serious applications nothing is beating C++/Java in the larger scenario. And Python and Ruby never came to match Perl's glory. Python's glory is fading pretty quickly. The web crowd is going to the next cool framework. Ruby tends to be pretty famous these days. Perl is truly among those first things done right tools. Nothing will ever replace C, Lisp, Perl, Unix, Emacs kind of tools completely. Because whatever tries to replace them, ultimately ends up looking up very similar to them.
- jamesbritt 15y ago
  Is this your speculation, or do you have a citation to back this up. As I wrote, "I don't have any references around to back this up." I used Perl for a few years about 10 years ago; was quite the perl evangelist at that job. Then I found Ruby, which won my heart. But I have a pick-cover copy of the book perl (yes, all lower case). And I've read the whole thing and liked Wall's jokes. :) Python's glory is fading pretty quickly. The web crowd is going to the next cool framework. Ruby tends to be pretty famous these days. Pure trolling. Because whatever tries to replace them, ultimately ends up looking up very similar to them. That's an amazing assertion for which I would like to see proof. FWIW, I don't think Haskell looks like any of those, a passing resemblance to Lisp notwithstanding. Perl, et al may have been done right, but it's myopic to think they are some sort of end point of perfection, if only because we don't know all the things we want to do, so we don't know all the things we need to have, "done right" or otherwise. "There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy."
  - chromatic 15y ago
    Perl, et al may have been done right, but it's myopic to think they are some sort of end point of perfection... I'm not sure anyone will argue that seriously. That's an amazing assertion for which I would like to see proof. It's probably not true for Perl 5's concurrency and parallelism features, such as they are. (You get fork() and POSIX-style shared memory with IPC or a queue or RPC or whatever, and you like it.) It's probably true for access to POSIX and other standards. (I can't remember the article here several months ago about how to write fast network code, but it's essentially "Embrace what Unix and Unix-like systems give you." It's not the article about the Varnish architecture.) It's almost definitely true for module repositories, where it's not enough to track dependencies and mirror downloadable code bundles. Testing, change management, dependency resolution tracking, and documentation formats and presentation systems are essential. Not even CTAN gets it as right as CPAN.
  - kamaal 15y ago
    Pure trolling. Call it whatever you like, but I have observed Python related posts/discussions experiencing a rapid decline. Clojure/Ruby et al are beginning to take more center stage now. In most discussions, which used to be generally a buzz with Python web frameworks these days doesn't even get a slight mention of Python. Nothing wrong here, Python was the trend of the near past. There are newer trends these days. And there will other newer trends in the future. That's how it is, every couple of years. Something new comes to replace the famous. That's how technology works. Now just because you don't like what you read, it doesn't automatically amount to trolling.