5 ms·

The power of Unix. The simplicity of Mac. (July 2011) [pdf]

3 points by Bondi_Blue 4y ago

smoldesu 4y ago
It's a shame Apple has let a lot of their Unix internals start lapsing, in the age of Docker and microservices it would be an amazing MacOS superpower to run containers without a VM.
- johnklos 4y ago
  The permissions model and process safety of a modern Unix are more than adequate. Containers are for when you give up on them. Containers are nice for certain things but bring with them their own set of issues: * If permissions / process safety are broken in the underlying system, then a container compromise will mean a system compromise. * In a non-broken system, if permissions are ignored (because people incorrectly feel safe because stuff is in containers), then a compromise in one container usually leads to all containers being vulnerable. * Unless a person / organization is creating their own containers, they are subject to the whims of the container maker. Many containers have outdated and insecure dependencies even when the primary software for which the container is made is fully up to date. If I had to guess, I'd wager that Apple doesn't want to go along with the rest of the world in trying to make people feel better by addressing symptoms of bad practices.
  - smoldesu 4y ago
    I agree that containers suck, but that doesn't make Docker any less of an essential tool to have working well on your OS. I still do Docker work at the end of the day, and on MacOS it's one of the worst experiences around. My 2018 Macbook Pro can't run Docker at under 60c, which is frankly insane when I just need to debug something small. MacOS technically has the underpinnings to allow Docker to work natively, but I'm guessing that Apple doesn't want to re-write a bunch of GPL software just to appease a handful of non-creative prosumers. > I'd wager that Apple doesn't want to go along with the rest of the world in trying to make people feel better by addressing symptoms of bad practices. Apple runs their own software in containers, it's completely unfounded to assume that they're taking the high road when they also succumb to these bad practices. In any case, it shouldn't matter how bad the practice is, what matters is how well a Mac can perform regular dev activities. If Apple pushes an update to MacOS that breaks GCC, they have a responsibility to fix it instead of telling everyone to switch to Clang instead. That's just what stable operating systems do.

3 points by Bondi_Blue 4y ago

It's a shame Apple has let a lot of their Unix internals start lapsing, in the age of Docker and microservices it would be an amazing MacOS superpower to run containers without a VM.

johnklos 4y ago
The permissions model and process safety of a modern Unix are more than adequate. Containers are for when you give up on them. Containers are nice for certain things but bring with them their own set of issues: * If permissions / process safety are broken in the underlying system, then a container compromise will mean a system compromise. * In a non-broken system, if permissions are ignored (because people incorrectly feel safe because stuff is in containers), then a compromise in one container usually leads to all containers being vulnerable. * Unless a person / organization is creating their own containers, they are subject to the whims of the container maker. Many containers have outdated and insecure dependencies even when the primary software for which the container is made is fully up to date. If I had to guess, I'd wager that Apple doesn't want to go along with the rest of the world in trying to make people feel better by addressing symptoms of bad practices.
- smoldesu 4y ago
  I agree that containers suck, but that doesn't make Docker any less of an essential tool to have working well on your OS. I still do Docker work at the end of the day, and on MacOS it's one of the worst experiences around. My 2018 Macbook Pro can't run Docker at under 60c, which is frankly insane when I just need to debug something small. MacOS technically has the underpinnings to allow Docker to work natively, but I'm guessing that Apple doesn't want to re-write a bunch of GPL software just to appease a handful of non-creative prosumers. > I'd wager that Apple doesn't want to go along with the rest of the world in trying to make people feel better by addressing symptoms of bad practices. Apple runs their own software in containers, it's completely unfounded to assume that they're taking the high road when they also succumb to these bad practices. In any case, it shouldn't matter how bad the practice is, what matters is how well a Mac can perform regular dev activities. If Apple pushes an update to MacOS that breaks GCC, they have a responsibility to fix it instead of telling everyone to switch to Clang instead. That's just what stable operating systems do.