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> That would allow my older S1 Sonos gear (which I spent thousands on) to have basically unlimited life 2 years ago, I bought some used Yamaha (not "smart") sp

> That would allow my older S1 Sonos gear (which I spent thousands on) to have basically unlimited life 2 years ago, I bought some used Yamaha (not "smart") speakers and AVR. They are 8 years old now and work flawlessly. My solution to making them "smart" was to just Cast to my Android TV that's plugged into the AVR. That entire set up cost me <$200 and has no end in sight with a very clean upgrade path. It's unfortunate that so much modern hardware is paperweight in a few years just because the company can't be bothered to maintain the software.

JustSomeNobody 4y ago
> the company can't be bothered to maintain the software. or open source it and let enthusiasts maintain it.
kitsunesoba 4y ago
In my experience AirPlay equipped receivers are also a pretty decent bet for long term support. My receiver is a 7 year old midrange Marantz model and its AirPlay has always worked great. It still gets software updates occasionally too which is nice. If I upgrade it’ll be due to changing HDMI standards (it can’t handle high framerate 4K video), not protocol support. As I understand Airport Express models from the 2000s still work with AirPlay from modern Apple devices too, though I don’t own any and can’t vouch for them personally.
- azinman2 4y ago
  AirPlay 1 doesn't have the nice multi-room audio support that AirPlay 2 does. It only has a much hackier version that works from iTunes, but not from your iPhone's media controller. But if you only ever want to play to 1 device, then you're set.
  - Bellyache5 4y ago
    The 3rd generation AirPort Express (A1392; the flat/non-wall wart 2012 version) supports AirPlay 2. All generations of the AirPort Express also have a mini-TOSLINK output allowing for a pure digital audio stream from the source to the receiver/amplifier.
    - azinman2 4y ago
      Not only would that require me to buy an AirPort Express per speaker, many Sonos speakers don’t have an audio in jack. Thus my desire to bridge this purely in software.
      - Marsymars 4y ago
        It’s a bit janky for what you want do to, but if you have any Sonos S1 device with an input, you should be able to group that device with whatever other speakers you want playing the audio input. (And if that input device is a speaker that you don’t want playing, you can turn the volume all the way down.)
    - JohnBooty 4y ago
      While probably not an ideal solution for the parent poster, who understandably wants to make things work with their existing Sonos gear, the A1392 is an outstanding value at this point because there are absolute truckloads of them on eBay for ~$20. Assuming you're okay with AirPlay (which, admittedly, rules a lot of HN folks out) this is a $20-per-room device that gives you full lossless multiroom streaming including your choice of analog or optical out. Really great.
      - marcusjt 4y ago
        I have two Chromecast Audio devices which similarly provide both analogue and optical digital outputs, but they seem to be much more expensive second hand than the Airplay alternative.
        JohnBooty 4y ago
        I'm not sure if Chromecast Audios support lossless, if that matters.
      - Marsymars 4y ago
        Shame there’s nothing similar for video airplay. I needed to add airplay to an old/cheap dumb tv just for apple fitness in my partner’s workout room, and the only cost-sensible thing was an ad-infested roku device.
- germinalphrase 4y ago
  If the receiver is turned off, do you ever have to try multiple times (2-3) to wake and begin playing music via Airplay? I'm sure my slimline Marantz is just misconfigured.
  - kitsunesoba 4y ago
    I haven't had that trouble, but I have found that mine (NR1606 model) is more fussy about things like that when it's on WiFi. It definitely "prefers" to be on hardwired ethernet.
    - germinalphrase 4y ago
      Might have to start pulling cable.
      - grepfru_it 4y ago
        FYI my ~9y/o marantz is also hardwired, but I cannot get airplay to work unless I explicitly go to Net/USB and even then it's the same 2-3 attempt (switching inputs) to get the device to appear on the airplay list. After that it's flawless, but the UX pretty much means I'm the only one airplaying to that device. I have since upgraded 3 years ago to a newer slimline model and that has no problem being found regardless of the input used and regardless of wifi/ethernet. My friend with a ~5 year old denon also has no problem. So possible this is a discontinued firmware issue. YMMV
  - tra3 4y ago
    Yup. Happens a lot with my Denon. It also likes to disconnect a lot, while my TV (right above it) is streaming YouTube at the same time with no problem.
    - germinalphrase 4y ago
      My issue is less that it drops connection (seems pretty solid once I have music playing), but that the initial connection can take several tries. My guess is that when the receiver is awoken by Airplay, it is then attempting to connect to the “Last Used” input (or something) which disconnects Airplay.
- reaperducer 4y ago
  As I understand Airport Express models from the 2000s still work with AirPlay from modern Apple devices too Can confirm. I stream from my iPhone to a 2012 Airport Express hooked up to the aux in of a Sony HD radio.
vineyardmike 4y ago
Sonos has done a pretty decent job at keeping hardware alive. IIRC they still have S1 products alive but created S2 in the last few years because people wanted new features that required more CPU than their old devices could handle. They still maintain an old S1 app for older devices and I think those devices should still all work. I don’t think there’s a plan to “turn them off”. A lack of new features is something that may or may not be a problem. Actually, I think audio companies in general have been pretty good about keeping products alive. Even the old Amazon Echo Gen 1 I think still works… and that’s a full-on smart device that exists for the smarts not the audio quality.
- CharlesW 4y ago
  > They still maintain an old S1 app for older devices… Their current app now supports S1 devices as well.
  - squeaky-clean 4y ago
    Most S1 devices but not all of them. Some really old S1 devices aren't supported, I think the most popular one would be the Play:5 Gen1 https://support.sonos.com/s/article/4786?language=en_US https://support.sonos.com/s/article/4786?language=en_US
    - CharlesW 4y ago
      Ah! That's annoying, thanks for clarifying. I love my Arc system as a "point in time" purchase, but I don't have high trust in or loyalty to Sonos in general.
- yccs27 4y ago
  The problem here is the wildly different expectations. It's an audio system, and normally audio systems are expected to work for >30 years. But it's a "smart" system controlled through an app, and apps need to be maintained to keep working on new hardware.
  - 4y ago
malermeister 4y ago
Buy a raspberry pi zero with an audio hat, throw max2play on it! https://www.max2play.com/en/ https://www.max2play.com/en/
rodgerd 4y ago
> because the company can't be bothered to maintain the software. Ironically (considering that you're using Yamaha) their MusicCast system have had a reasonable lifespan (seven years on the third generation, although they no longer support their 2003 stuff). But yes, I'm looking at dabbling with HifiBerry (https://www.hifiberry.com/ https://www.hifiberry.com/) for streaming duties for my older stereo gear.

JustSomeNobody 4y ago

> the company can't be bothered to maintain the software. or open source it and let enthusiasts maintain it.

kitsunesoba 4y ago

In my experience AirPlay equipped receivers are also a pretty decent bet for long term support. My receiver is a 7 year old midrange Marantz model and its AirPlay has always worked great. It still gets software updates occasionally too which is nice. If I upgrade it’ll be due to changing HDMI standards (it can’t handle high framerate 4K video), not protocol support. As I understand Airport Express models from the 2000s still work with AirPlay from modern Apple devices too, though I don’t own any and can’t vouch for them personally.

azinman2 4y ago
AirPlay 1 doesn't have the nice multi-room audio support that AirPlay 2 does. It only has a much hackier version that works from iTunes, but not from your iPhone's media controller. But if you only ever want to play to 1 device, then you're set.
- Bellyache5 4y ago
  The 3rd generation AirPort Express (A1392; the flat/non-wall wart 2012 version) supports AirPlay 2. All generations of the AirPort Express also have a mini-TOSLINK output allowing for a pure digital audio stream from the source to the receiver/amplifier.
  - azinman2 4y ago
    Not only would that require me to buy an AirPort Express per speaker, many Sonos speakers don’t have an audio in jack. Thus my desire to bridge this purely in software.
    - Marsymars 4y ago
      It’s a bit janky for what you want do to, but if you have any Sonos S1 device with an input, you should be able to group that device with whatever other speakers you want playing the audio input. (And if that input device is a speaker that you don’t want playing, you can turn the volume all the way down.)
  - JohnBooty 4y ago
    While probably not an ideal solution for the parent poster, who understandably wants to make things work with their existing Sonos gear, the A1392 is an outstanding value at this point because there are absolute truckloads of them on eBay for ~$20. Assuming you're okay with AirPlay (which, admittedly, rules a lot of HN folks out) this is a $20-per-room device that gives you full lossless multiroom streaming including your choice of analog or optical out. Really great.
    - marcusjt 4y ago
      I have two Chromecast Audio devices which similarly provide both analogue and optical digital outputs, but they seem to be much more expensive second hand than the Airplay alternative.
      - JohnBooty 4y ago
        I'm not sure if Chromecast Audios support lossless, if that matters.
    - Marsymars 4y ago
      Shame there’s nothing similar for video airplay. I needed to add airplay to an old/cheap dumb tv just for apple fitness in my partner’s workout room, and the only cost-sensible thing was an ad-infested roku device.
germinalphrase 4y ago
If the receiver is turned off, do you ever have to try multiple times (2-3) to wake and begin playing music via Airplay? I'm sure my slimline Marantz is just misconfigured.
- kitsunesoba 4y ago
  I haven't had that trouble, but I have found that mine (NR1606 model) is more fussy about things like that when it's on WiFi. It definitely "prefers" to be on hardwired ethernet.
  - germinalphrase 4y ago
    Might have to start pulling cable.
    - grepfru_it 4y ago
      FYI my ~9y/o marantz is also hardwired, but I cannot get airplay to work unless I explicitly go to Net/USB and even then it's the same 2-3 attempt (switching inputs) to get the device to appear on the airplay list. After that it's flawless, but the UX pretty much means I'm the only one airplaying to that device. I have since upgraded 3 years ago to a newer slimline model and that has no problem being found regardless of the input used and regardless of wifi/ethernet. My friend with a ~5 year old denon also has no problem. So possible this is a discontinued firmware issue. YMMV
- tra3 4y ago
  Yup. Happens a lot with my Denon. It also likes to disconnect a lot, while my TV (right above it) is streaming YouTube at the same time with no problem.
  - germinalphrase 4y ago
    My issue is less that it drops connection (seems pretty solid once I have music playing), but that the initial connection can take several tries. My guess is that when the receiver is awoken by Airplay, it is then attempting to connect to the “Last Used” input (or something) which disconnects Airplay.
reaperducer 4y ago
As I understand Airport Express models from the 2000s still work with AirPlay from modern Apple devices too Can confirm. I stream from my iPhone to a 2012 Airport Express hooked up to the aux in of a Sony HD radio.

vineyardmike 4y ago

Sonos has done a pretty decent job at keeping hardware alive. IIRC they still have S1 products alive but created S2 in the last few years because people wanted new features that required more CPU than their old devices could handle. They still maintain an old S1 app for older devices and I think those devices should still all work. I don’t think there’s a plan to “turn them off”. A lack of new features is something that may or may not be a problem. Actually, I think audio companies in general have been pretty good about keeping products alive. Even the old Amazon Echo Gen 1 I think still works… and that’s a full-on smart device that exists for the smarts not the audio quality.

CharlesW 4y ago
> They still maintain an old S1 app for older devices… Their current app now supports S1 devices as well.
- squeaky-clean 4y ago
  Most S1 devices but not all of them. Some really old S1 devices aren't supported, I think the most popular one would be the Play:5 Gen1 https://support.sonos.com/s/article/4786?language=en_US https://support.sonos.com/s/article/4786?language=en_US
  - CharlesW 4y ago
    Ah! That's annoying, thanks for clarifying. I love my Arc system as a "point in time" purchase, but I don't have high trust in or loyalty to Sonos in general.
yccs27 4y ago
The problem here is the wildly different expectations. It's an audio system, and normally audio systems are expected to work for >30 years. But it's a "smart" system controlled through an app, and apps need to be maintained to keep working on new hardware.
- 4y ago

malermeister 4y ago

Buy a raspberry pi zero with an audio hat, throw max2play on it! https://www.max2play.com/en/ https://www.max2play.com/en/

rodgerd 4y ago

> because the company can't be bothered to maintain the software. Ironically (considering that you're using Yamaha) their MusicCast system have had a reasonable lifespan (seven years on the third generation, although they no longer support their 2003 stuff). But yes, I'm looking at dabbling with HifiBerry (https://www.hifiberry.com/ https://www.hifiberry.com/) for streaming duties for my older stereo gear.