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> yet no one sees it as "criminal." The government seizes cash all the time for no other reason than the cash itself existing. Between 2000 and 2016, CBP and

> yet no one sees it as "criminal." The government seizes cash all the time for no other reason than the cash itself existing. Between 2000 and 2016, CBP and other DHS agencies conducted at least 30,574 currency seizures at airports, taking over $2 billion in total. Over two-thirds of all cases involving currency seized at airports were not accompanied by an arrest. Sources: https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/trafficandcommuting/homeland-security-seized-2-billion-from-travelers-but-most-were-never-charged-with-a-crime-report-says/2020/07/30/001c3f90-cd05-11ea-bc6a-6841b28d9093_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/trafficandcommuting/hom..., https://ij.org/report/jetway-robbery/ https://ij.org/report/jetway-robbery/

janandonly 4y ago
I did not know this. Thanks for sharing. The #waroncash is real then?
- tepitoperrito 4y ago
  Yeah, it just hasn't moved fully west. I remember India proposing phasing out cash for "reasons". How soon till we start seeing serious pushes remains to be seen.
arberx 4y ago
Seizing cash is different than blanket banning privacy services. Of course, there is a large spectrum of cases here with many outliers.
bhawks 4y ago
Doesn't anyone find property seizures without due process a bit concerning? I am sure there were a few mistakes made across those 16 years and 2 billion dollars. Civil asset forfeiture needs some reform. Even if you go to court you need to prove your innocence - a much higher bar then traditional court cases.
- jjoonathan 4y ago
  PRISM makes a mockery of the "search" part of the 4th Amendment, Civil Asset Forfeiture makes a mockery of the "seizure" part.
- mrtksn 4y ago
  I wouldn't know about the specific situation in the USA but here in Europe(EU or not), cash seizures happens at the borders all the time and the due process is that you need to be able to explain the origin of the money. It is a popular theme for Turks working in Germany having their cash seized by Serbia on their way to a vacation in Turkey. This is because, the Turkish diaspora in Germany is predominantly blue collar due to the nature of their immigration(long story short, many years go Germany requested workers for their factories, many Turks took the opportunity) and they have a lot of opportunities to deal with cash and not pay tax on it. Essentially, Turks who do "tax-free" business buy properties in Turkey and there's a common fraud to claim benefits because on the books they look very poor, so they definitely don't want that money to go into the books and the Serbian police apparently caught up with it. Anyway, the fraud is about to be solved not by seizure of assets but by data-sharing agreement between EU and Turkey, the Turkish banks and the state will report the properties and assets to EU&UK for anti fraud purposes. There are many pissed off people about it.
hervature 4y ago
I agree wholeheartedly that the price of maintaining the privacy of cash and stopping these seizures, even if +90% of these seizure cases were legitimately illegal earned cash, benefits the people more than the opposite. That being said, I think there are more pervasive rules in our society that makes these seizures mild in comparison. Using the numbers you posted, that's $65k per seizure. Individuals carrying around the median annual household income is much more suspect than the $10k deposit limit that must be reported to the IRS. If law abiding folks get hassled for $10k, then $65k is obviously questionable. I think banks should not have to report anything but at the very least the limit should be $1M. $10k is a good day (Christmas, Black Friday, etc.) of sales for many regular people. Hell, even bartenders can make $10k in tips over the course of months not even years.

janandonly 4y ago

I did not know this. Thanks for sharing. The #waroncash is real then?

tepitoperrito 4y ago
Yeah, it just hasn't moved fully west. I remember India proposing phasing out cash for "reasons". How soon till we start seeing serious pushes remains to be seen.

arberx 4y ago

Seizing cash is different than blanket banning privacy services. Of course, there is a large spectrum of cases here with many outliers.

bhawks 4y ago

Doesn't anyone find property seizures without due process a bit concerning? I am sure there were a few mistakes made across those 16 years and 2 billion dollars. Civil asset forfeiture needs some reform. Even if you go to court you need to prove your innocence - a much higher bar then traditional court cases.

jjoonathan 4y ago
PRISM makes a mockery of the "search" part of the 4th Amendment, Civil Asset Forfeiture makes a mockery of the "seizure" part.
mrtksn 4y ago
I wouldn't know about the specific situation in the USA but here in Europe(EU or not), cash seizures happens at the borders all the time and the due process is that you need to be able to explain the origin of the money. It is a popular theme for Turks working in Germany having their cash seized by Serbia on their way to a vacation in Turkey. This is because, the Turkish diaspora in Germany is predominantly blue collar due to the nature of their immigration(long story short, many years go Germany requested workers for their factories, many Turks took the opportunity) and they have a lot of opportunities to deal with cash and not pay tax on it. Essentially, Turks who do "tax-free" business buy properties in Turkey and there's a common fraud to claim benefits because on the books they look very poor, so they definitely don't want that money to go into the books and the Serbian police apparently caught up with it. Anyway, the fraud is about to be solved not by seizure of assets but by data-sharing agreement between EU and Turkey, the Turkish banks and the state will report the properties and assets to EU&UK for anti fraud purposes. There are many pissed off people about it.

hervature 4y ago

I agree wholeheartedly that the price of maintaining the privacy of cash and stopping these seizures, even if +90% of these seizure cases were legitimately illegal earned cash, benefits the people more than the opposite. That being said, I think there are more pervasive rules in our society that makes these seizures mild in comparison. Using the numbers you posted, that's $65k per seizure. Individuals carrying around the median annual household income is much more suspect than the $10k deposit limit that must be reported to the IRS. If law abiding folks get hassled for $10k, then $65k is obviously questionable. I think banks should not have to report anything but at the very least the limit should be $1M. $10k is a good day (Christmas, Black Friday, etc.) of sales for many regular people. Hell, even bartenders can make $10k in tips over the course of months not even years.