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> Not land - countries. Yes, most (all?) land belongs to countries. You're being weirdly pedantic. But then, once it's annexed, it's just part of the USSR. Rem

> Not land - countries. Yes, most (all?) land belongs to countries. You're being weirdly pedantic. But then, once it's annexed, it's just part of the USSR. Remember how we don't say "the Ukraine" anymore? The reason why we _used_ to say that is because it _used_ to be accurate because there wasn't a country, it was a region of the USSR. > you can’t claim with a straight face that Russia brought with it the technology or culture That's not really the claim I'm making. The claim I'm making is that the USSR space program being called a "Russian" space program isn't really egregious (and, I think, colloquially true). The technology that space program developed is appropriately called Russian, even if each individual working on it isn't Russian, even if every component wasn't made by Russia. The program is a Russian effort and the result was a Russian rocket. > the brains part came from Ukraine, not Russia NASA doesn't only employ natural born Americans. The guy who developed the Russian guidance system was Ukrainian. It's still Russian.

trasz 4y ago
>Yes, most (all?) land belongs to countries. But countries are more than land. It's not that Ukrainian land was part of USSR - the Ukrainian nation was part of USSR. Same with Russian nation. >The program is a Russian effort and the result was a Russian rocket. No, that's the point: the program was Soviet, and the result was a Soviet rocket. Russia was just one part of that. And if you look at the last two decades, you'll see what while Ukraine was able to build a functioning country, Russia failed to achieve anything apart from selling out what's left by USSR and oil/gas extraction using foreign-bought technologies.
- gdy 4y ago
  What exactly was functioning in the Ukraine? Russia has built new types of aircraft, new rocket, new nuclear icebreakers and power stations, its own internet search engine that can stand up to Google, and what not. Stop learning about the world through BBC.
  - trasz 4y ago
    >Russia has built new types of aircraft, new rocket This would be a valid argument six months ago. Now we know those "new types of aircraft" were vaporware, and missiles work really fine only if you can claim that a random barn is a valid military target. Some of the things that did materialize - like the new military telecom system - turned out to be rebranded Chinese products. >new nuclear icebreakers Which were co-developed with Ukraine. Btw, do you know Russia's only aircraft carrier was literally stolen from Ukraine? >its own internet search engine This one is actually true, but on the other hand Ukraine had wider success with Whatsapp.
    - trasz 4y ago
      Not to mention that Korolev, “von Braun of the Soviet space program”, was Ukrainian.
      - gdy 4y ago
        Korolev was born in the Ukrainian SSR and let me quote wiki [0]: "His father, Pavel Yakovlevich Korolev, was born in Mogilev to a Russian soldier and a Belarusian mother. His mother, Maria Nikolaevna Koroleva (Moskalenko/Bulanina), was a daughter of a wealthy merchant from the city of Nezhin (now Nizhyn, Ukraine), with Ukrainian, Greek and Polish heritage." There is something very indecent in talking about nationality or ethnicity of great people as if it really matters. Please stop it, okay? [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sergei_Korolev#Early_life https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sergei_Korolev#Early_life
        trasz 4y ago
        >There is something very indecent in talking about nationality or ethnicity of great people as if it really matters. You do realize that this thread started with you misappropriating Soviet achievements to Russia?
        gdy 4y ago
        Of course, rocket built in Russia 25 years after the USSR dissolution is Russian rocket even if it's an upgraded version [0] of Soviet design. And there is nothing about people, nationality or ethnicity in my comment, just the name of country which built and launched the rocket. [0] http://www.russianspaceweb.com/soyuz2_lv.html http://www.russianspaceweb.com/soyuz2_lv.html

trasz 4y ago

>Yes, most (all?) land belongs to countries. But countries are more than land. It's not that Ukrainian land was part of USSR - the Ukrainian nation was part of USSR. Same with Russian nation. >The program is a Russian effort and the result was a Russian rocket. No, that's the point: the program was Soviet, and the result was a Soviet rocket. Russia was just one part of that. And if you look at the last two decades, you'll see what while Ukraine was able to build a functioning country, Russia failed to achieve anything apart from selling out what's left by USSR and oil/gas extraction using foreign-bought technologies.

gdy 4y ago
What exactly was functioning in the Ukraine? Russia has built new types of aircraft, new rocket, new nuclear icebreakers and power stations, its own internet search engine that can stand up to Google, and what not. Stop learning about the world through BBC.
- trasz 4y ago
  >Russia has built new types of aircraft, new rocket This would be a valid argument six months ago. Now we know those "new types of aircraft" were vaporware, and missiles work really fine only if you can claim that a random barn is a valid military target. Some of the things that did materialize - like the new military telecom system - turned out to be rebranded Chinese products. >new nuclear icebreakers Which were co-developed with Ukraine. Btw, do you know Russia's only aircraft carrier was literally stolen from Ukraine? >its own internet search engine This one is actually true, but on the other hand Ukraine had wider success with Whatsapp.
  - trasz 4y ago
    Not to mention that Korolev, “von Braun of the Soviet space program”, was Ukrainian.
    - gdy 4y ago
      Korolev was born in the Ukrainian SSR and let me quote wiki [0]: "His father, Pavel Yakovlevich Korolev, was born in Mogilev to a Russian soldier and a Belarusian mother. His mother, Maria Nikolaevna Koroleva (Moskalenko/Bulanina), was a daughter of a wealthy merchant from the city of Nezhin (now Nizhyn, Ukraine), with Ukrainian, Greek and Polish heritage." There is something very indecent in talking about nationality or ethnicity of great people as if it really matters. Please stop it, okay? [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sergei_Korolev#Early_life https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sergei_Korolev#Early_life
      - trasz 4y ago
        >There is something very indecent in talking about nationality or ethnicity of great people as if it really matters. You do realize that this thread started with you misappropriating Soviet achievements to Russia?
        gdy 4y ago
        Of course, rocket built in Russia 25 years after the USSR dissolution is Russian rocket even if it's an upgraded version [0] of Soviet design. And there is nothing about people, nationality or ethnicity in my comment, just the name of country which built and launched the rocket. [0] http://www.russianspaceweb.com/soyuz2_lv.html http://www.russianspaceweb.com/soyuz2_lv.html