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I have no issue with the term autopilot. Boeing sells planes with autopilot, no one expects them to be fully autonomous. The FSD name makes more sense for the

I have no issue with the term autopilot. Boeing sells planes with autopilot, no one expects them to be fully autonomous. The FSD name makes more sense for the software they've got in public beta than their current offering. Interestingly the only difference between "enhanced autopilot" and FSD right now is the ability to stop at stop lights.

tremon 4y ago
Boeing doesn't sell to consumers, their customers are large companies. There's quite a difference in the level of knowledge/competence to be expected between those two markets. So "this is fine in B2B" does not automatically translate into "this is fine when targeting John Q Public".
- inversefft 4y ago
  Last I checked drivers are still required to be licensed and understand the functionality of their cars.
  - NegativeLatency 4y ago
    By taking a driving test one time in their life? Also if you fly like a maniac you’ll get your license taken away, which is very much not the case for driving.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - umeshunni 4y ago
    Yes, but they're not being trained on a specific car model like pilots are.
  - pessimizer 4y ago
    They've incorporated the best practices for managing the limitations of Tesla's autopilot into driving tests now? Glad to hear it.
    - v0idzer0 4y ago
      No but they actually should. And every company either already has or is near an equivalent, so it makes sense to train drivers on what will soon be ubiquitous car software. Remember the goal here is to make driving safer. And there’s no evidence Teslas System isn’t doing that. People crash and die without autopilot every single day.
  - aNoob7000 4y ago
    LOL - They don't have to be licensed specifically on a Tesla. They can show up in a Toyota Tercel from 1999 and take their test.
- NegativeLatency 4y ago
  Speaking of aviation this is a great pilot training on automation dependence https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ESJH1NLMLs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ESJH1NLMLs
_ea1k 4y ago
I agree. Nissan doesn't seem to get much flak for "ProPilot" either. FSD shouldn't be allowed. EAP is a decent name for what it actually does.
aNoob7000 4y ago
I think you are being dismissive of the claim because who would think that "autopilot" doesn't mean everything is done for you. Comparing a pilot to a regular car driver is just completely off point. You are basically throwing out all the training pilots have to do just to make your point.
belorn 4y ago
Word has context and get interpreted by the person reading or hearing it. Advertisement is only misleading if people get mislead, which is subjective and involve judgement calls both on the reader but also by the legal system that think that people get mislead. Pilot use technical terms that they learn in both training but also in the culture around pilots. Words used by pilots in that context can have a different meaning than the literal interpretation of those word outside that context by non-pilots. The jargon is different, and thus advertisement towards pilots using that jargon will be interpreted in that context. The word "autopilot" directed towards pilots will be interpreted in that context, meaning they will expect the technology to work as training and culture has made them to expect. Driver training is very different from pilot training, and the jargon and lingo is different from pilots. An car with autopilot that is limited to work with the restrictions of a airplane autopilot, ie only work at airport or while high in the air, would likely not be what the driver expected. The same word but different context.
hn_user2 4y ago
I don't have a problem with any of the terms personally, because I feel I have a good understanding of what it is actually capable of. What I think is more important is understanding what the general population of buyers of these cars think it means. Whether they are wrong or right, what they think it means effects how they drive with autopilot on, and whether they are looking ahead or on their phone. The only real way to know this would be to measure it, and I doubt that is knowledge that Tesla wants to know. As a side note, the Boeing pilot will spend a great deal of time looking at charts or their company laptop once they are at cruise with their auto-pilot on.

tremon 4y ago

Boeing doesn't sell to consumers, their customers are large companies. There's quite a difference in the level of knowledge/competence to be expected between those two markets. So "this is fine in B2B" does not automatically translate into "this is fine when targeting John Q Public".

inversefft 4y ago
Last I checked drivers are still required to be licensed and understand the functionality of their cars.
- NegativeLatency 4y ago
  By taking a driving test one time in their life? Also if you fly like a maniac you’ll get your license taken away, which is very much not the case for driving.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- umeshunni 4y ago
  Yes, but they're not being trained on a specific car model like pilots are.
- pessimizer 4y ago
  They've incorporated the best practices for managing the limitations of Tesla's autopilot into driving tests now? Glad to hear it.
  - v0idzer0 4y ago
    No but they actually should. And every company either already has or is near an equivalent, so it makes sense to train drivers on what will soon be ubiquitous car software. Remember the goal here is to make driving safer. And there’s no evidence Teslas System isn’t doing that. People crash and die without autopilot every single day.
- aNoob7000 4y ago
  LOL - They don't have to be licensed specifically on a Tesla. They can show up in a Toyota Tercel from 1999 and take their test.
NegativeLatency 4y ago
Speaking of aviation this is a great pilot training on automation dependence https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ESJH1NLMLs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ESJH1NLMLs

_ea1k 4y ago

I agree. Nissan doesn't seem to get much flak for "ProPilot" either. FSD shouldn't be allowed. EAP is a decent name for what it actually does.

aNoob7000 4y ago

I think you are being dismissive of the claim because who would think that "autopilot" doesn't mean everything is done for you. Comparing a pilot to a regular car driver is just completely off point. You are basically throwing out all the training pilots have to do just to make your point.

belorn 4y ago

Word has context and get interpreted by the person reading or hearing it. Advertisement is only misleading if people get mislead, which is subjective and involve judgement calls both on the reader but also by the legal system that think that people get mislead. Pilot use technical terms that they learn in both training but also in the culture around pilots. Words used by pilots in that context can have a different meaning than the literal interpretation of those word outside that context by non-pilots. The jargon is different, and thus advertisement towards pilots using that jargon will be interpreted in that context. The word "autopilot" directed towards pilots will be interpreted in that context, meaning they will expect the technology to work as training and culture has made them to expect. Driver training is very different from pilot training, and the jargon and lingo is different from pilots. An car with autopilot that is limited to work with the restrictions of a airplane autopilot, ie only work at airport or while high in the air, would likely not be what the driver expected. The same word but different context.

hn_user2 4y ago

I don't have a problem with any of the terms personally, because I feel I have a good understanding of what it is actually capable of. What I think is more important is understanding what the general population of buyers of these cars think it means. Whether they are wrong or right, what they think it means effects how they drive with autopilot on, and whether they are looking ahead or on their phone. The only real way to know this would be to measure it, and I doubt that is knowledge that Tesla wants to know. As a side note, the Boeing pilot will spend a great deal of time looking at charts or their company laptop once they are at cruise with their auto-pilot on.