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I mean Ukrainians aren't idiots, I'm sure they could've either cracked any necessary codes or worked around their need in the ~31 years since 1991 (Ukraine's in

I mean Ukrainians aren't idiots, I'm sure they could've either cracked any necessary codes or worked around their need in the ~31 years since 1991 (Ukraine's independence). I suspect it would be easiest to just take the nuclear material out of the unusable missiles and construct a different weapon using it. Russia is adjacent to them so any sort of nuclear weapon launch-able from an artillery or plane still sounds useful.

s1artibartfast 4y ago
It would have been an act of war. Ukraine would have had to fight the Russian army protecting the nukes in Ukraine. Despite the breakup of the USSR, I don't think Russia would have let that happen. For comparison, How do you think that the USA would react if Turkey tried to size control of US nukes housed there?
- type0 4y ago
  > It would have been an act of war. No it wouldn't. They were pressured by the US to give up Soviet nukes. Codes are easy to fix, but nukes need service and are expensive to keep so it was as much of sparing measure than anything.
  - s1artibartfast 4y ago
    I think you are missing my point. The Nukes were built by the soviets, but after the breakup, Russia had control of them in Ukraine. In order for Ukraine to take full possession of the nukes in their country, they would have to fight through Russians at military bases.
    - type0 4y ago
      USSR had one army though, but after that it was controlled by Commonwealth of Independent States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukraine_and_weapons_of_mass_destruction https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukraine_and_weapons_of_mass_de... If Ukrainians wanted they could have prevented this at the time of Soviet Union dissolution, but they didn't so there's not much to discuss.
      - s1artibartfast 4y ago
        We might be saying the same thing. My point is basically that if Ukraine tried to take full control of the Nukes in their country, they would have been picking a fight with Russia, and possibly the US as well. https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/1992/03/14/us-protests-interruption-in-moving-ukrainian-arms/a213b48c-ca0c-4fc5-b89d-7a4156a59d40/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/1992/03/14/u... https://www.jstor.org/stable/resrep10926.13?seq=2#metadata_info_tab_contents https://www.jstor.org/stable/resrep10926.13?seq=2#metadata_i...
- mambru 4y ago
  Not the same situation. Soviet nukes were soviet, with good chunks of them buit in Ukraine. See for instance where that was built: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/R-36_(missile) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/R-36_(missile) Also, Chernobyl.
  - s1artibartfast 4y ago
    I think you are missing my point. The Nukes were built by the soviets, but after the breakup, Russia had control of them in Ukraine. In order for Ukraine to take full possession, they would have to fight through Russians at military bases.
    - mambru 4y ago
      I agree with that, my point is that the Ukrainians had the technical capabilities to seize control. And they chose not exercise that option. Besides, why did only Russia, of the 15 post-Soviet states have to retain control over all the stockpile? The answer is probably because the alternative was too scary for the west. Better to keep dealing just with Moscow.

s1artibartfast 4y ago

It would have been an act of war. Ukraine would have had to fight the Russian army protecting the nukes in Ukraine. Despite the breakup of the USSR, I don't think Russia would have let that happen. For comparison, How do you think that the USA would react if Turkey tried to size control of US nukes housed there?

type0 4y ago
> It would have been an act of war. No it wouldn't. They were pressured by the US to give up Soviet nukes. Codes are easy to fix, but nukes need service and are expensive to keep so it was as much of sparing measure than anything.
- s1artibartfast 4y ago
  I think you are missing my point. The Nukes were built by the soviets, but after the breakup, Russia had control of them in Ukraine. In order for Ukraine to take full possession of the nukes in their country, they would have to fight through Russians at military bases.
  - type0 4y ago
    USSR had one army though, but after that it was controlled by Commonwealth of Independent States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukraine_and_weapons_of_mass_destruction https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukraine_and_weapons_of_mass_de... If Ukrainians wanted they could have prevented this at the time of Soviet Union dissolution, but they didn't so there's not much to discuss.
    - s1artibartfast 4y ago
      We might be saying the same thing. My point is basically that if Ukraine tried to take full control of the Nukes in their country, they would have been picking a fight with Russia, and possibly the US as well. https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/1992/03/14/us-protests-interruption-in-moving-ukrainian-arms/a213b48c-ca0c-4fc5-b89d-7a4156a59d40/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/1992/03/14/u... https://www.jstor.org/stable/resrep10926.13?seq=2#metadata_info_tab_contents https://www.jstor.org/stable/resrep10926.13?seq=2#metadata_i...
mambru 4y ago
Not the same situation. Soviet nukes were soviet, with good chunks of them buit in Ukraine. See for instance where that was built: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/R-36_(missile) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/R-36_(missile) Also, Chernobyl.
- s1artibartfast 4y ago
  I think you are missing my point. The Nukes were built by the soviets, but after the breakup, Russia had control of them in Ukraine. In order for Ukraine to take full possession, they would have to fight through Russians at military bases.
  - mambru 4y ago
    I agree with that, my point is that the Ukrainians had the technical capabilities to seize control. And they chose not exercise that option. Besides, why did only Russia, of the 15 post-Soviet states have to retain control over all the stockpile? The answer is probably because the alternative was too scary for the west. Better to keep dealing just with Moscow.