6 ms·

Why can't we have something like a 1980s small Toyota truck with a Tesla motor drivetrain and no onboard computers other than simple microcontrollers for the va

Why can't we have something like a 1980s small Toyota truck with a Tesla motor drivetrain and no onboard computers other than simple microcontrollers for the various systems (charging, etc.), no streaming wifi / GPS data collection, and no need for software updates because everything was properly designed to work with the hardware before the vehicle was sold? Such a setup would likely be cheaper to manufacture as well. The only way to get anything like that now is to pay a custom mechanic to put a Tesla motor into an old vehicle, which is kind of ridiculous.

robscallsign 4y ago
I suspect it's the same reason why Microsoft just doesn't sell a version of Windows without telemetry for a flat rate: there is just too much money on the table for tracking and selling your private data over the lifetime of the vehicle (or computer).
- orourkek 4y ago
  "Smart" TVs seem to fall into the same category. Manufacturers realized they can make much more money and hit a (much) lower price point by packaging telemetry and using/selling the data. Nowadays "dumb" TVs either aren't available or come at a premium.
- AlexandrB 4y ago
  For any consumer electronics/software product, if you can make $X just selling the standalone product, you can generally make $X + $Y selling the same product and collecting data or presenting some advertising. I don't see how this math changes without legislation. People don't have the expertise or time to evaluate the risk of each vendor's privacy policies and the negative consequences of this kind of data collection are rarely immediate enough to cause a negative consumer reaction.
  - causality0 4y ago
    Right. The easier computers get to use, the lower the skill level of the average user. If Windows 95 had spied on the user like Windows 11 does an angry mob would've descended on Redmond with torches and pitchforks.
- MetaWhirledPeas 4y ago
  > I suspect it's the same reason why Microsoft just doesn't sell a version of Windows without telemetry for a flat rate: there is just too much money on the table for tracking and selling your private data over the lifetime of the vehicle (or computer). Do Windows Enterprise and Windows Server machines include telemetry? I would assume "no", in which case there you go.
nemothekid 4y ago
>Such a setup would likely be cheaper to manufacture as well. It would only be cheaper to manufacture at scale; and that assumes that market wants a "1980s small Toyota truck with a Tesla motor". I imagine a car like that wouldn't sell very well; so it would either be incredibly expensive to either build in small batches or to make up for the unsold inventory
- jonhohle 4y ago
  The Toyota Hi-Lux, which used to be their compact truck, is the second best selling truck in the world. Older versions are somewhat legendary for their indestructibility - https://topgear.fandom.com/wiki/The_Indestructible_Hilux https://topgear.fandom.com/wiki/The_Indestructible_Hilux
  - nemothekid 4y ago
    The 2022 HiLux is not the 1980s Hilux. The 2020 Hilux has GPS, CarPlay and Toyota Connected Services.
    - jonhohle 4y ago
      Of course they are different. The compact version lasted until ‘97 and is still one of the best selling trucks of all time. The Ford Maverick fits into the compact, inexpensive pickup slot and is doing very well. I’m not saying it would have to be Hilux branded but fill the gap for a compact, economical, bombproof pickup. Your original comment was that it wouldn’t sell well. Ford Maverick sales indicate that would not be the case.
      - nemothekid 4y ago
        The original comment put forth: >no onboard computers other than simple microcontrollers for the various systems (charging, etc.), no streaming wifi / GPS data collection, and no need for software updates You are talking about a vehicle with no onboard SATNAV, no Carplay/Android Auto, no telematic roadside assistance. The Ford Maverick has all these things. My claim isn't that small trucks don't sell, my claim is that a car that doesn't even support Bluetooth audio wouldn't sell.
moonchrome 4y ago
I think stuff like emergency breaking is going to be mandatory (or already is) on new cars in EU. But there's stuff like : https://www.volkswagen.co.uk/en/new/e-up.html https://www.volkswagen.co.uk/en/new/e-up.html which basically has a phone holder where the dash would usually be. Maybe other budget manufacturers will bring out something like this.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- rbanffy 4y ago
  I would prefer to have the phone taking over the navigation/entertainment system the way Android Auto and Apple's CarPlay do. In this car, unfortunately, the entertainment system screen is tiny and most likely unsuitable for this. If you build a car with a non-standard slot for an entertainment system, the least you can do is to make it smarter.
  - causality0 4y ago
    Yes, I don't know what kind of masochist prefers to navigate using an infotainment screen aimed at their back seat instead of a phone pointed directly at the driver.
    - rbanffy 4y ago
      Much bigger screen and single UI for all navigation and entertainment.
- mulmen 4y ago
  My 2010 BMW has a cell phone holder in the center armrest. It was designed for the phones of the time. So when the iPhone 5 came out it became impossible to use because BMW never anticipated a phone being that large. The built-in infotainment system is still lightyears beyond anything on a cell phone. On a road trip if the car gets to 1/8 of a tank of gas it will offer to set a destination to the nearest gas station. This requires one button press to accept. If there’s a navigation destination it will insert a stop to get gas.
adt2bt 4y ago
> no need for software updates because everything was properly designed to work with the hardware before the vehicle was sold. I think there's your answer. That's hard to do, and software mistakes cost a lot of $$$ and time to fix. You have to go into a dealership/service area to get any updates. Also, the vast majority of Tesla's customers are attracted to the idea that their car will continuously update itself and get better over time.
- acoard 4y ago
  > I think there's your answer. That's hard to do, and software mistakes cost a lot of $$$ and time to fix. You have to go into a dealership/service area to get any updates. Do current BEVs require frequent updates to maintain off-the-lot functionality and drive-worthiness? Like in practice, if I bought a BMW BEV and ripped out any internet connectivity / only drove around in a faraday cage, would it break after 3mo (or 3yr) unless I took it into the dealership for a software update? >Also, the vast majority of Tesla's customers are attracted to the idea that their car will continuously update itself and get better over time. Yes, I think this is a selling point too. However it need not be a requirement for all BEVs. If switching to this model is prohibitive then it shouldn't be a roadblock.
  - standyro 4y ago
    I didn't update my Tesla for about a year and half. It eventually complained with a custom message that I would completely lose cell access in the car (which powers navigation, etc) if I didn't run the v11 update. I reluctantly updated because I know, and by that point they had fixed most of the UX issues that I had complaints about. The UI team at Tesla at least seems to listen to feedback from customers, which is more to say for bugs in any infotainment system that I've ever had in any other car I've owned.
    - judge2020 4y ago
      https://www.teslaownersonline.com/threads/software-build-v11-0-v10-2-2021-44.19645/page-33#post-332914 https://www.teslaownersonline.com/threads/software-build-v11... Once AT&T 3G shuts down, chances are it won't be able to connect to the network due to how it logs on. While the AT&T site[0] says "will decommission our 3G networks on February 22, 2022", but it's actually been pretty slow with 3G still lingering in many places and others getting it turned off around the time they're working on 5G deployments utilizing the now-free spectrum[1,2]. They probably could've fixed this by updating V10 with only the modem changes but they want people on V11 more. 0: https://iotdevices.att.com/att-iot/3GSunset.aspx https://iotdevices.att.com/att-iot/3GSunset.aspx 1: https://redd.it/vwb7uu https://redd.it/vwb7uu 2: https://redd.it/w777ez https://redd.it/w777ez
kevmo 4y ago
This is why I folded and just got a well-maintained 1992 F-150. I don't need or want all the computers.
PeterisP 4y ago
It has become illegal to make and sell cars with the electronics feature set of 1980. E.g. every new car now will have to have reversing camera, event data recorder, drowsiness and distraction detection, lane-keeping assist and advanced emergency braking. I'm not sure if it's practical to do that with "no onboard computers other than simple microcontrollers" - of course there are some microcontrollers that rival the computers I grew up with, but the complexity of the involved software is inherent in the required functionality. And since you have to pack the car with all these sensors, cameras and compute power anyway for safety reasons, all the privacy-invasive features don't require much if any extra hardware cost.
- ziddoap 4y ago
  >It has become illegal to make and sell cars with the electronics feature set of 1980. Where are you that this holds true? That it's illegal to not include those things? I very recently bought a brand new car (within 2022) and while it does have a reverse camera, it does not have drowsiness/distraction detection, nor lane-assist, or any advanced braking tech (outside of ABS), etc.
  - lazide 4y ago
    Everywhere in the United States for backup cameras at least, since 2018 - https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2018/05/02/backup-cameras/572079002/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2018/05/02/backup-...
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
  - stonemetal12 4y ago
    In the US, backup cameras became mandatory in May 2018. In the EU, drowsiness/distraction detection becomes mandatory this year.
    - ziddoap 4y ago
throwaway0a5e 4y ago
If even a small fraction of the people saying they want this actually put their money where your mouth was there would be a decent conversion industry by now (there is, but it's so small it's basically nonexistent and it's all one off builds). Also, rose colored glasses are a thing. When was the last time you (the average dolt reading this, not you personally) rode in a vehicle from the 80s let alone slogged out a commute in one? The venn diagram of "people for whom it is fashionable to want an 80s Toyota pickup" and "people who would commute in any 80s vehicle" is two circles. Sure you can "fix" the driving experience by upgrading stuff but unless you produce them at scale the cost of doing each of these upgrades will be much greater per unit and the total price will quickly eclipse that of just buying new vehicles.
judge2020 4y ago
> Such a setup would likely be cheaper to manufacture as well. This is false only because costs tend to go down with scale - if you have an entire line making ten $10k BOM (bill of materials) cars in one shift it's going to be a loss-leader compared to a line making 300 cars a shift with a $12k BOM even if both cars sell at the same MSRP.
russellendicott 4y ago
I have an old Ranger and I'm gonna try and do exactly this. Still gonna cost like $15k for Li batteries though.
ska 4y ago
> Why can't we have something like a 1980s small Toyota truck with "Software eats the world". Consider something like fueling (I know this isn't in your Tesla drive train, but it's apples to apples). Your 1980s Toyota truck had a carburettor, a physical linkage direct to the gas pedal, and pretty simple exhaust. Very simple air intake. The carbs were fiddly and expensive to build, but didn't really wear out or need much service (unless you let gas rot in them). They were also very inefficient across most of their range, as there is only so much you can do with a throttle body and venturi. Compare "same" light duty truck now. Fuel injection with a control system: "smart" ECU, a far more complex exhaust - and sensors all along the way. The burn is far more efficient and controlled, partially because the exhaust has to be so much cleaner. There is a lot of software in there. For the most part the only way anyone (e.g. NASA) knows how to make software anywhere close to as bulletproof ans that mechanical carb and linkage is to absolutely pour effort into it from design through to final test. Assume a 5x-10x cost on the software development, and pass that on the consumers. If you assume the same lack of safety functionality as the 1980s truck, you can cut a chunk of that out, but I don't see that happening.
mattbrewsbytes 4y ago
It would be really neat for some company to produce kits to replace ICE's with electric motors and battery packs for modern-ish cars like a Corolla/Civic/Fiesta. No need for fancy LCD screens, auto-driving, etc. just replace ICE with EV parts and get 100+mi range and you'd replace most commuter/2nd car use cases. I envision it to be like PC parts. It would be awesome for standards to develop for EV's like there are for ICE. I'm sure its much more complicated and deals with high voltage so likely to need some education to not fry yourself.
- EvanAnderson 4y ago
  When I posed this to an engineer friend working in the automotive space his comment was that weight distribution and handling / safety (and liability) would be huge issues in retrofitting ICE cars en masse.
- QuizzicalCarbon 4y ago
  Ford sells the same electric engine used in their Mach-E as a separate kit. It’s pretty cool.
- Consultant32452 4y ago
  One maker converted his Tesla to ICE because you can't get repair parts for a Tesla. https://evobsession.com/converting-a-tesla-model-s-into-an-ice-vehicle-to-save-it-from-going-to-the-scrapyard/ https://evobsession.com/converting-a-tesla-model-s-into-an-i...
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
1-6 4y ago
Will the Chicken Tax law also affect light duty EV trucks? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicken_tax https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicken_tax
stetrain 4y ago
A 1980s small toyota pickup would do very poorly in modern crash tests. We have added way more airbags and much stronger roof pillars and side reinforcement which dramatically improves safety in a crash but also steals interior space, making vehicles inch larger to keep the same interior room. Also if you want a battery electric vehicle with good range, you need a big battery. That's easier to fit into a larger vehicle (ie Tesla Model X) than a small vehicle, and the extra energy usage of the larger vehicle doesn't scale as fast as the larger battery capacity that can fit within. I think the US could use something like Japan's Kei-car classification. Vehicles that are meant to use around town <= 45mph without going on the highway or needing to handle a 75mph rollover crash. This could be incentivized by cities with parking costs for larger vehicles. But it's difficult to sell when you might still get T-boned at 45mph by a 6,000lb Chevy Tahoe. Edit: Another big reason for the tech and data connection on EVs is navigation. If you want to travel outside of your home charging radius, you're going to want to know what charging stations are along your route, what speeds they deliver, and what their current availability is. A lot of Tesla's secret sauce is the "Just type your destination into the nav screen" where the car figures out your energy usage and charging stops to get wherever you want to go.
panick21_ 4y ago
Because nobody except a very few number of extreme technologist would buy it.
Kirby64 4y ago
The fact is, you'll never be able to recreate a truck from the 1980s because crash safety measures are much, much stricter than they used to be so the form factor of that era is not going to return. The dirty secret is that infotainment additions have an outsized impact on consumer demand (better, fancier infotainment is a huge plus) for the cost paid. Due to all the new things needed to comply with current regulations, you'll have little uptake on the super low end model with no infotainment or fancy features if the price difference to the fancy screen version is commiserate with the price paid by the manufacturer. Also, as already mentioned in other posts, it may be at cost-parity due to the higher demand of the fancier trim model.
birken 4y ago
So many replies to this without a single person mentioning that cars are extremely dangerous and kill lots of people every year. However, over the past 40 years cars have gotten much safer and kill far fewer people. A lot of these safety improvements are structural, but also a lot of them are due to the fancy onboard computers which are doing traction control and blind spot monitoring and deciding which airbags to deploy and emergency braking and on and on. When a person driving a automobile runs through a crosswalk and hits and kills an innocent child crossing the street with their bike, an accident that could and should have been avoided by automatic emergency braking, a great cost has been inflicting on society as a whole so a person could save $500 on their car. The price of each individual car needs to be calibrated with the price to society of all the bad things cars do. And this isn't a hypothetical situation where cars might kills tens of thousands of drivers and thousands of pedestrians every year --- they already do. Mandating safer cars, even if this will increase manufacturing costs and bring up all these new data privacy issues, has a huge positive impact on the rest of the people that happen to share the world with those cars.
- photochemsyn 4y ago
  This is a pretty good point I hadn't considered, although I do wonder why there are so many poor drivers. Staring at their cell phone GPS or built-in media centers probably has a lot to do with the distraction component. That's also an argument for more completely automated transport means. Personally I'm all for banning cars from city centers and tearing down the suburbia commuter model, and just using cars and trucks for long-distance travel and/or hauling needs, but that's probably not very likely anytime soon.
clouddrover 4y ago
Here's a simple EV for you: https://www.thedrive.com/news/meyers-manx-returns-with-an-all-electric-dune-buggy https://www.thedrive.com/news/meyers-manx-returns-with-an-al...

robscallsign 4y ago

I suspect it's the same reason why Microsoft just doesn't sell a version of Windows without telemetry for a flat rate: there is just too much money on the table for tracking and selling your private data over the lifetime of the vehicle (or computer).

orourkek 4y ago
"Smart" TVs seem to fall into the same category. Manufacturers realized they can make much more money and hit a (much) lower price point by packaging telemetry and using/selling the data. Nowadays "dumb" TVs either aren't available or come at a premium.
AlexandrB 4y ago
For any consumer electronics/software product, if you can make $X just selling the standalone product, you can generally make $X + $Y selling the same product and collecting data or presenting some advertising. I don't see how this math changes without legislation. People don't have the expertise or time to evaluate the risk of each vendor's privacy policies and the negative consequences of this kind of data collection are rarely immediate enough to cause a negative consumer reaction.
- causality0 4y ago
  Right. The easier computers get to use, the lower the skill level of the average user. If Windows 95 had spied on the user like Windows 11 does an angry mob would've descended on Redmond with torches and pitchforks.
MetaWhirledPeas 4y ago
> I suspect it's the same reason why Microsoft just doesn't sell a version of Windows without telemetry for a flat rate: there is just too much money on the table for tracking and selling your private data over the lifetime of the vehicle (or computer). Do Windows Enterprise and Windows Server machines include telemetry? I would assume "no", in which case there you go.

nemothekid 4y ago

>Such a setup would likely be cheaper to manufacture as well. It would only be cheaper to manufacture at scale; and that assumes that market wants a "1980s small Toyota truck with a Tesla motor". I imagine a car like that wouldn't sell very well; so it would either be incredibly expensive to either build in small batches or to make up for the unsold inventory

jonhohle 4y ago
The Toyota Hi-Lux, which used to be their compact truck, is the second best selling truck in the world. Older versions are somewhat legendary for their indestructibility - https://topgear.fandom.com/wiki/The_Indestructible_Hilux https://topgear.fandom.com/wiki/The_Indestructible_Hilux
- nemothekid 4y ago
  The 2022 HiLux is not the 1980s Hilux. The 2020 Hilux has GPS, CarPlay and Toyota Connected Services.
  - jonhohle 4y ago
    Of course they are different. The compact version lasted until ‘97 and is still one of the best selling trucks of all time. The Ford Maverick fits into the compact, inexpensive pickup slot and is doing very well. I’m not saying it would have to be Hilux branded but fill the gap for a compact, economical, bombproof pickup. Your original comment was that it wouldn’t sell well. Ford Maverick sales indicate that would not be the case.
    - nemothekid 4y ago
      The original comment put forth: >no onboard computers other than simple microcontrollers for the various systems (charging, etc.), no streaming wifi / GPS data collection, and no need for software updates You are talking about a vehicle with no onboard SATNAV, no Carplay/Android Auto, no telematic roadside assistance. The Ford Maverick has all these things. My claim isn't that small trucks don't sell, my claim is that a car that doesn't even support Bluetooth audio wouldn't sell.

moonchrome 4y ago

I think stuff like emergency breaking is going to be mandatory (or already is) on new cars in EU. But there's stuff like : https://www.volkswagen.co.uk/en/new/e-up.html https://www.volkswagen.co.uk/en/new/e-up.html which basically has a phone holder where the dash would usually be. Maybe other budget manufacturers will bring out something like this.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
rbanffy 4y ago
I would prefer to have the phone taking over the navigation/entertainment system the way Android Auto and Apple's CarPlay do. In this car, unfortunately, the entertainment system screen is tiny and most likely unsuitable for this. If you build a car with a non-standard slot for an entertainment system, the least you can do is to make it smarter.
- causality0 4y ago
  Yes, I don't know what kind of masochist prefers to navigate using an infotainment screen aimed at their back seat instead of a phone pointed directly at the driver.
  - rbanffy 4y ago
    Much bigger screen and single UI for all navigation and entertainment.
mulmen 4y ago
My 2010 BMW has a cell phone holder in the center armrest. It was designed for the phones of the time. So when the iPhone 5 came out it became impossible to use because BMW never anticipated a phone being that large. The built-in infotainment system is still lightyears beyond anything on a cell phone. On a road trip if the car gets to 1/8 of a tank of gas it will offer to set a destination to the nearest gas station. This requires one button press to accept. If there’s a navigation destination it will insert a stop to get gas.

adt2bt 4y ago

> no need for software updates because everything was properly designed to work with the hardware before the vehicle was sold. I think there's your answer. That's hard to do, and software mistakes cost a lot of $$$ and time to fix. You have to go into a dealership/service area to get any updates. Also, the vast majority of Tesla's customers are attracted to the idea that their car will continuously update itself and get better over time.

acoard 4y ago
> I think there's your answer. That's hard to do, and software mistakes cost a lot of $$$ and time to fix. You have to go into a dealership/service area to get any updates. Do current BEVs require frequent updates to maintain off-the-lot functionality and drive-worthiness? Like in practice, if I bought a BMW BEV and ripped out any internet connectivity / only drove around in a faraday cage, would it break after 3mo (or 3yr) unless I took it into the dealership for a software update? >Also, the vast majority of Tesla's customers are attracted to the idea that their car will continuously update itself and get better over time. Yes, I think this is a selling point too. However it need not be a requirement for all BEVs. If switching to this model is prohibitive then it shouldn't be a roadblock.
- standyro 4y ago
  I didn't update my Tesla for about a year and half. It eventually complained with a custom message that I would completely lose cell access in the car (which powers navigation, etc) if I didn't run the v11 update. I reluctantly updated because I know, and by that point they had fixed most of the UX issues that I had complaints about. The UI team at Tesla at least seems to listen to feedback from customers, which is more to say for bugs in any infotainment system that I've ever had in any other car I've owned.
  - judge2020 4y ago
    https://www.teslaownersonline.com/threads/software-build-v11-0-v10-2-2021-44.19645/page-33#post-332914 https://www.teslaownersonline.com/threads/software-build-v11... Once AT&T 3G shuts down, chances are it won't be able to connect to the network due to how it logs on. While the AT&T site[0] says "will decommission our 3G networks on February 22, 2022", but it's actually been pretty slow with 3G still lingering in many places and others getting it turned off around the time they're working on 5G deployments utilizing the now-free spectrum[1,2]. They probably could've fixed this by updating V10 with only the modem changes but they want people on V11 more. 0: https://iotdevices.att.com/att-iot/3GSunset.aspx https://iotdevices.att.com/att-iot/3GSunset.aspx 1: https://redd.it/vwb7uu https://redd.it/vwb7uu 2: https://redd.it/w777ez https://redd.it/w777ez

kevmo 4y ago

This is why I folded and just got a well-maintained 1992 F-150. I don't need or want all the computers.

PeterisP 4y ago

It has become illegal to make and sell cars with the electronics feature set of 1980. E.g. every new car now will have to have reversing camera, event data recorder, drowsiness and distraction detection, lane-keeping assist and advanced emergency braking. I'm not sure if it's practical to do that with "no onboard computers other than simple microcontrollers" - of course there are some microcontrollers that rival the computers I grew up with, but the complexity of the involved software is inherent in the required functionality. And since you have to pack the car with all these sensors, cameras and compute power anyway for safety reasons, all the privacy-invasive features don't require much if any extra hardware cost.

ziddoap 4y ago
>It has become illegal to make and sell cars with the electronics feature set of 1980. Where are you that this holds true? That it's illegal to not include those things? I very recently bought a brand new car (within 2022) and while it does have a reverse camera, it does not have drowsiness/distraction detection, nor lane-assist, or any advanced braking tech (outside of ABS), etc.
- lazide 4y ago
  Everywhere in the United States for backup cameras at least, since 2018 - https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2018/05/02/backup-cameras/572079002/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2018/05/02/backup-...
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
- stonemetal12 4y ago
  In the US, backup cameras became mandatory in May 2018. In the EU, drowsiness/distraction detection becomes mandatory this year.
  - ziddoap 4y ago

throwaway0a5e 4y ago

If even a small fraction of the people saying they want this actually put their money where your mouth was there would be a decent conversion industry by now (there is, but it's so small it's basically nonexistent and it's all one off builds). Also, rose colored glasses are a thing. When was the last time you (the average dolt reading this, not you personally) rode in a vehicle from the 80s let alone slogged out a commute in one? The venn diagram of "people for whom it is fashionable to want an 80s Toyota pickup" and "people who would commute in any 80s vehicle" is two circles. Sure you can "fix" the driving experience by upgrading stuff but unless you produce them at scale the cost of doing each of these upgrades will be much greater per unit and the total price will quickly eclipse that of just buying new vehicles.

judge2020 4y ago

> Such a setup would likely be cheaper to manufacture as well. This is false only because costs tend to go down with scale - if you have an entire line making ten $10k BOM (bill of materials) cars in one shift it's going to be a loss-leader compared to a line making 300 cars a shift with a $12k BOM even if both cars sell at the same MSRP.

russellendicott 4y ago

I have an old Ranger and I'm gonna try and do exactly this. Still gonna cost like $15k for Li batteries though.

ska 4y ago

> Why can't we have something like a 1980s small Toyota truck with "Software eats the world". Consider something like fueling (I know this isn't in your Tesla drive train, but it's apples to apples). Your 1980s Toyota truck had a carburettor, a physical linkage direct to the gas pedal, and pretty simple exhaust. Very simple air intake. The carbs were fiddly and expensive to build, but didn't really wear out or need much service (unless you let gas rot in them). They were also very inefficient across most of their range, as there is only so much you can do with a throttle body and venturi. Compare "same" light duty truck now. Fuel injection with a control system: "smart" ECU, a far more complex exhaust - and sensors all along the way. The burn is far more efficient and controlled, partially because the exhaust has to be so much cleaner. There is a lot of software in there. For the most part the only way anyone (e.g. NASA) knows how to make software anywhere close to as bulletproof ans that mechanical carb and linkage is to absolutely pour effort into it from design through to final test. Assume a 5x-10x cost on the software development, and pass that on the consumers. If you assume the same lack of safety functionality as the 1980s truck, you can cut a chunk of that out, but I don't see that happening.

mattbrewsbytes 4y ago

It would be really neat for some company to produce kits to replace ICE's with electric motors and battery packs for modern-ish cars like a Corolla/Civic/Fiesta. No need for fancy LCD screens, auto-driving, etc. just replace ICE with EV parts and get 100+mi range and you'd replace most commuter/2nd car use cases. I envision it to be like PC parts. It would be awesome for standards to develop for EV's like there are for ICE. I'm sure its much more complicated and deals with high voltage so likely to need some education to not fry yourself.

EvanAnderson 4y ago
When I posed this to an engineer friend working in the automotive space his comment was that weight distribution and handling / safety (and liability) would be huge issues in retrofitting ICE cars en masse.
QuizzicalCarbon 4y ago
Ford sells the same electric engine used in their Mach-E as a separate kit. It’s pretty cool.
Consultant32452 4y ago
One maker converted his Tesla to ICE because you can't get repair parts for a Tesla. https://evobsession.com/converting-a-tesla-model-s-into-an-ice-vehicle-to-save-it-from-going-to-the-scrapyard/ https://evobsession.com/converting-a-tesla-model-s-into-an-i...

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

1-6 4y ago

Will the Chicken Tax law also affect light duty EV trucks? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicken_tax https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicken_tax

stetrain 4y ago

A 1980s small toyota pickup would do very poorly in modern crash tests. We have added way more airbags and much stronger roof pillars and side reinforcement which dramatically improves safety in a crash but also steals interior space, making vehicles inch larger to keep the same interior room. Also if you want a battery electric vehicle with good range, you need a big battery. That's easier to fit into a larger vehicle (ie Tesla Model X) than a small vehicle, and the extra energy usage of the larger vehicle doesn't scale as fast as the larger battery capacity that can fit within. I think the US could use something like Japan's Kei-car classification. Vehicles that are meant to use around town <= 45mph without going on the highway or needing to handle a 75mph rollover crash. This could be incentivized by cities with parking costs for larger vehicles. But it's difficult to sell when you might still get T-boned at 45mph by a 6,000lb Chevy Tahoe. Edit: Another big reason for the tech and data connection on EVs is navigation. If you want to travel outside of your home charging radius, you're going to want to know what charging stations are along your route, what speeds they deliver, and what their current availability is. A lot of Tesla's secret sauce is the "Just type your destination into the nav screen" where the car figures out your energy usage and charging stops to get wherever you want to go.

panick21_ 4y ago

Because nobody except a very few number of extreme technologist would buy it.

Kirby64 4y ago

The fact is, you'll never be able to recreate a truck from the 1980s because crash safety measures are much, much stricter than they used to be so the form factor of that era is not going to return. The dirty secret is that infotainment additions have an outsized impact on consumer demand (better, fancier infotainment is a huge plus) for the cost paid. Due to all the new things needed to comply with current regulations, you'll have little uptake on the super low end model with no infotainment or fancy features if the price difference to the fancy screen version is commiserate with the price paid by the manufacturer. Also, as already mentioned in other posts, it may be at cost-parity due to the higher demand of the fancier trim model.

birken 4y ago

So many replies to this without a single person mentioning that cars are extremely dangerous and kill lots of people every year. However, over the past 40 years cars have gotten much safer and kill far fewer people. A lot of these safety improvements are structural, but also a lot of them are due to the fancy onboard computers which are doing traction control and blind spot monitoring and deciding which airbags to deploy and emergency braking and on and on. When a person driving a automobile runs through a crosswalk and hits and kills an innocent child crossing the street with their bike, an accident that could and should have been avoided by automatic emergency braking, a great cost has been inflicting on society as a whole so a person could save $500 on their car. The price of each individual car needs to be calibrated with the price to society of all the bad things cars do. And this isn't a hypothetical situation where cars might kills tens of thousands of drivers and thousands of pedestrians every year --- they already do. Mandating safer cars, even if this will increase manufacturing costs and bring up all these new data privacy issues, has a huge positive impact on the rest of the people that happen to share the world with those cars.

photochemsyn 4y ago
This is a pretty good point I hadn't considered, although I do wonder why there are so many poor drivers. Staring at their cell phone GPS or built-in media centers probably has a lot to do with the distraction component. That's also an argument for more completely automated transport means. Personally I'm all for banning cars from city centers and tearing down the suburbia commuter model, and just using cars and trucks for long-distance travel and/or hauling needs, but that's probably not very likely anytime soon.

clouddrover 4y ago

Here's a simple EV for you: https://www.thedrive.com/news/meyers-manx-returns-with-an-all-electric-dune-buggy https://www.thedrive.com/news/meyers-manx-returns-with-an-al...