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The quantity of CO2 needing to be dumped in to the atmosphere to manufacture new cars to meet this is going to be astronomical. The majority of the CO2 cost of

The quantity of CO2 needing to be dumped in to the atmosphere to manufacture new cars to meet this is going to be astronomical. The majority of the CO2 cost of a car is in the manufacturing. I don't understand why they are doing this?

trgn 4y ago
ICE cars pollute the local environment, which is worse imho than their contribution to global warming. ICE cars are noisy, stink, and have unhealthy exhaust. For those reasons alone, an electric car is better.
- irthomasthomas 4y ago
  I agree 100%,and if they sold them on that, I might support them. But then I would rather scrap cars altogether. Phase them out over 20 years, and replace with public transport and bicycles.
  - irthomasthomas 4y ago
    Plus EV taxis, and private cars only for those with a special need.
- mdp2021 4y ago
  > noisy Now for reality instead: since people have developed the direst situation of being "brainless", I have been near vehicles you would praise, and the noise they make is _unbearable_. That is because some satanic critters, which unfortunately constitute empowered components in management, marketing and public, believe it a "good idea" to replace traditional engine noise with synths of '90s operating system boot samples. This happens because people have lost their nature, of feedback-based machines, and can go on living after being shot (they will not know about it). -- Edit: an hybrid in electric mode just parked near me, in real time, and the noise was not the most particularly annoying - it's a Hyundai - but it was definitely upsetting and irritating (though much better than other hellish nightmares I have heard driving near me). I assess that normal individuals would probably be not that bothered when they pass on the streets many yards distant - but I am not sure, it really depends which audio bands will reach you. I am pretty sure that others I have experienced will be fully unbearable at a much longer distance. Edit2: they just left now, and the noise at the start was quite acceptable now - just a mildly loud fan, nothing perverse. It seems Hyundai has guessed a few effects properly. (Issue is, others have not - and this logically opens for more.) Those evidences of hell on earth are driving by clearly unregulated - and it is doubtful that given the mental state of nowadays earth crawlers they will ever be regulated (you need a clean humanity still capable of being bothered by noise for that). And for what the single sniper that hit this post is concerned - likewise for silence, let us refrain to spend much verbal judgement.
monodeldiablo 4y ago
Because the CO2 cost of manufacturing a new ICE car is comparable to that of a new EV, but the lifetime CO2 contribution of a new EV is far lower than that of an ICE car.
- irthomasthomas 4y ago
  Can you prove that, because that is not my understanding. EVs use way more CO2 in their manufacturing. Not to mention the added environmental impact of battery manufacturing and lithium mining. We can't solve climate change by buying a new car. Edit. I'm sure Musk and Tesla are super proud of the CO2 savings their company provides, so it shouldn't be hard to find the data they are publishing showing the net cost to carbon for the entire manufacturing and life time use of their product.
wenc 4y ago
> The majority of the CO2 cost of a car is in the manufacturing Is this true over the life time of the car? Studies indicate this may be a widely believed myth.
- irthomasthomas 4y ago
  Is it a widely believed myth? Every time I mention it I only hear shock and disbelief. I almost never hear it talked about. I'd like to read that paper, though.
  - wenc 4y ago
    If you google there are a ton of studies showing that over the lifetime of a car from the time of manufacturing, emissions from an EV is still about 1/3 or ICE.
    - irthomasthomas 4y ago
      This one says different. https://www.volvocars.com/images/v/-/media/project/contentplatform/data/media/my23/xc40-electric-light/volvo-cars-LCA-report-xc40.pdf https://www.volvocars.com/images/v/-/media/project/contentpl... And Volvo is making EV cars. Remember that renewables are only, what, 10-20% of our electric supply? EVs are way heavier, and they require more energy, raw materials, and toxic chemicals to produce. If the lawmakers where serious about this, then would solve the other problems first. We need a clean electric supply, first. Then we need a green supply chain, EV trucks, trains and ships and factories etc. THEN it might make sense to scrap perfectly good used cars in favour of brand new, shiny, must-have EVs.
irthomasthomas 4y ago
Look, according to Volvo, (who make an EV and ICE version of the same car, on the same manufacturing process), "The emissions from Materials production and refining of the ICE are roughly 40 per cent less than for the BEV" [0] Therefore, forcing people to scrap working vehicles and buy new ones, in such a short time period, is going to dump massive quantities of CO2 in to the atmosphere in very order. This sounds extremely dangerous. I don't understand their reasoning. Surely they need to fix the EV electric energy mix to make it more renewable, before forcing people to buy the EVs [0]https://www.volvocars.com/images/v/-/media/project/contentplatform/data/media/my23/xc40-electric-light/volvo-cars-LCA-report-xc40.pdf https://www.volvocars.com/images/v/-/media/project/contentpl...
- frumper 4y ago
  Who's being forced to scrap working vehicles?
  - irthomasthomas 4y ago
    California, for one. But it doesn't matter, EVs need about 60% more carbon up front. Until you have 100% clean electricity supply and greener, longer lasting batteries, they can't recover that deficit.
    - frumper 4y ago
      I live in California and have heard of no such proposals. Can you link to one? It does matter, you claimed it. It makes it sound like your arguments are just bogus if you claim your own arguments don't matter.
      - irthomasthomas 4y ago
        Talk to some truck drivers.

trgn 4y ago

ICE cars pollute the local environment, which is worse imho than their contribution to global warming. ICE cars are noisy, stink, and have unhealthy exhaust. For those reasons alone, an electric car is better.

irthomasthomas 4y ago
I agree 100%,and if they sold them on that, I might support them. But then I would rather scrap cars altogether. Phase them out over 20 years, and replace with public transport and bicycles.
- irthomasthomas 4y ago
  Plus EV taxis, and private cars only for those with a special need.
mdp2021 4y ago
> noisy Now for reality instead: since people have developed the direst situation of being "brainless", I have been near vehicles you would praise, and the noise they make is _unbearable_. That is because some satanic critters, which unfortunately constitute empowered components in management, marketing and public, believe it a "good idea" to replace traditional engine noise with synths of '90s operating system boot samples. This happens because people have lost their nature, of feedback-based machines, and can go on living after being shot (they will not know about it). -- Edit: an hybrid in electric mode just parked near me, in real time, and the noise was not the most particularly annoying - it's a Hyundai - but it was definitely upsetting and irritating (though much better than other hellish nightmares I have heard driving near me). I assess that normal individuals would probably be not that bothered when they pass on the streets many yards distant - but I am not sure, it really depends which audio bands will reach you. I am pretty sure that others I have experienced will be fully unbearable at a much longer distance. Edit2: they just left now, and the noise at the start was quite acceptable now - just a mildly loud fan, nothing perverse. It seems Hyundai has guessed a few effects properly. (Issue is, others have not - and this logically opens for more.) Those evidences of hell on earth are driving by clearly unregulated - and it is doubtful that given the mental state of nowadays earth crawlers they will ever be regulated (you need a clean humanity still capable of being bothered by noise for that). And for what the single sniper that hit this post is concerned - likewise for silence, let us refrain to spend much verbal judgement.

monodeldiablo 4y ago

Because the CO2 cost of manufacturing a new ICE car is comparable to that of a new EV, but the lifetime CO2 contribution of a new EV is far lower than that of an ICE car.

irthomasthomas 4y ago
Can you prove that, because that is not my understanding. EVs use way more CO2 in their manufacturing. Not to mention the added environmental impact of battery manufacturing and lithium mining. We can't solve climate change by buying a new car. Edit. I'm sure Musk and Tesla are super proud of the CO2 savings their company provides, so it shouldn't be hard to find the data they are publishing showing the net cost to carbon for the entire manufacturing and life time use of their product.

wenc 4y ago

> The majority of the CO2 cost of a car is in the manufacturing Is this true over the life time of the car? Studies indicate this may be a widely believed myth.

irthomasthomas 4y ago
Is it a widely believed myth? Every time I mention it I only hear shock and disbelief. I almost never hear it talked about. I'd like to read that paper, though.
- wenc 4y ago
  If you google there are a ton of studies showing that over the lifetime of a car from the time of manufacturing, emissions from an EV is still about 1/3 or ICE.
  - irthomasthomas 4y ago
    This one says different. https://www.volvocars.com/images/v/-/media/project/contentplatform/data/media/my23/xc40-electric-light/volvo-cars-LCA-report-xc40.pdf https://www.volvocars.com/images/v/-/media/project/contentpl... And Volvo is making EV cars. Remember that renewables are only, what, 10-20% of our electric supply? EVs are way heavier, and they require more energy, raw materials, and toxic chemicals to produce. If the lawmakers where serious about this, then would solve the other problems first. We need a clean electric supply, first. Then we need a green supply chain, EV trucks, trains and ships and factories etc. THEN it might make sense to scrap perfectly good used cars in favour of brand new, shiny, must-have EVs.

irthomasthomas 4y ago

Look, according to Volvo, (who make an EV and ICE version of the same car, on the same manufacturing process), "The emissions from Materials production and refining of the ICE are roughly 40 per cent less than for the BEV" [0] Therefore, forcing people to scrap working vehicles and buy new ones, in such a short time period, is going to dump massive quantities of CO2 in to the atmosphere in very order. This sounds extremely dangerous. I don't understand their reasoning. Surely they need to fix the EV electric energy mix to make it more renewable, before forcing people to buy the EVs [0]https://www.volvocars.com/images/v/-/media/project/contentplatform/data/media/my23/xc40-electric-light/volvo-cars-LCA-report-xc40.pdf https://www.volvocars.com/images/v/-/media/project/contentpl...

frumper 4y ago
Who's being forced to scrap working vehicles?
- irthomasthomas 4y ago
  California, for one. But it doesn't matter, EVs need about 60% more carbon up front. Until you have 100% clean electricity supply and greener, longer lasting batteries, they can't recover that deficit.
  - frumper 4y ago
    I live in California and have heard of no such proposals. Can you link to one? It does matter, you claimed it. It makes it sound like your arguments are just bogus if you claim your own arguments don't matter.
    - irthomasthomas 4y ago
      Talk to some truck drivers.