5 ms·

I was one of the early adopters. Monzo felt fresh and exciting back when it started, kind of like Google in its early days. But I later switched to Revolut and

by mojuba 4y ago

I was one of the early adopters. Monzo felt fresh and exciting back when it started, kind of like Google in its early days. But I later switched to Revolut and never looked back. I was driven purely by intuition and no particular reason. While trying to understand why, I thought it was probably because there was too much PR and fuzz around Monzo as an "ethical business" and little action. You don't just talk about being ethical or caring about the customers (most data collection companies say "we value your privacy"). You prove it by doing, by delivering an amazing product and customer support, and by showing how you are going to turn profitable. Revolut and other competitors talk less but you can see they are doing reasonable job on all fronts.

Nextgrid 4y ago
I wouldn't consider Revolut ethical though. Revolut allowed people to open accounts immediately with no (or very soft) KYC but then had to limit (by law) the amount of money they could transact before passing stronger KYC. This led to a lot of people opening Revolut accounts, going abroad and ending up stranded with no access to their money once they've exhausted the initial limit, sometimes with no way to complete KYC at all if they didn't have the required documents on hand. The ethical approach here would've been to prevent these people from opening accounts without initial full KYC or have strong & persistent warnings about the issue to dissuade people from going abroad with a limited account, but who cares about people being stranded if you can have "growth" instead?
- mojuba 4y ago
  That's strange, I've used Revolut as my main account for years and never hit any limits. I suppose there's ATM withdrawal cap but I don't use cash much.
- jozvolskyef 4y ago
  See my sibling comment for a counterargument. I do agree with the warnings though.
shantnutiwari 4y ago
I gave up on Revolut after scandals about its CEO and financial shenanigans; and the many customer service nightmares. In banking, boring is better
- mojuba 4y ago
  > In banking, boring is better Exactly, you don't want to hand your money to a fancy organization that experiments with its PR and god knows what it does behind the scenes. Never heard about the scandals though, do you have any links?
- oakesm9 4y ago
  I tried boring with TSB. Their botched IT migration which left with me with no access to money for a few days and seeing other customer full account details when I signed in online causes some to switch to Monzo. They’re not perfect, and their app is getting noticeable worse for the fundamentals as they add more money making features like loans and flex, but I’ve still had no major issues in years.
  - Nextgrid 4y ago
    You want "boring" but modern, competent "boring" such as Starling. It's modern but otherwise boring code (a Java monolith if I remember correctly), a modern app and is backed by a profitable, sustainable business with no "growth & engagement" smell.
karmakaze 4y ago
Just noticed the double entendre in 'we value your privacy'--your private data provides the $value.
nly 4y ago
The Revolut app is a hot mess though. Monzo have kept theirs clean l, focus and and useful.
- antihero 4y ago
  The Monzo app lags and chokes swiping between accounts on my brand new iPhone 13 Mini.
  - nly 4y ago
    Works fine on Android
    - Nextgrid 4y ago
      They are using native apps so 2 different codebases, that would explain why you're not experiencing iOS-specific bugs.
- Nextgrid 4y ago
  Monzo's initial UI used to be amazing. I find their V2 UI terrible, and of course the various "growth & engagement" shenanigans don't help - feels more like a bullshit social media app than a tool that's supposed to hold & manage my money.
jozvolskyef 4y ago
I would try Monzo, but all I get from them is > Unfortunately we can't offer you a Monzo account > We're afraid we can't go into more detail about why we can't offer you an account. > We assess every application using details you've given us, and any information we get from the credit reference agencies we use (Experian and TrnsUnion) or from anti-fraud services like Cifas. Starling is the same. As a debt-free UK resident without any UK driver's licenses, utility bills, benefit claims, gun certificates, electoral register or GP records, the only bank that is willing to do business with me is Revolut. Not having any credit history is becoming a barrier to access more and more services that require an identity check. While it is understandable that companies want to protect themselves from fraud, this trend is making it difficult for people who don't have a credit history to access basic services. This is creating a significant barrier for certain groups of people, and it is something that should be addressed. When it comes to providing essential services to those who fall through the cracks, Revolut may be more ethical than the other options.
- raesene9 4y ago
  The problem of lacking credit history has been around for a long time, I remember getting a credit card, which I paid off in full every month, just to increase my credit score ~ 20 years ago. For people without a good credit history in the UK there is meant to be "basic bank accounts" which don't require credit checking as they don't offer overdrafts (https://www.moneyhelper.org.uk/en/everyday-money/banking/basic-bank-accounts https://www.moneyhelper.org.uk/en/everyday-money/banking/bas...) That said, you will still need proof of identity/address. If a bank is taking you on without those, I'd struggle to see how it's meeting KYC (Know your customer) requirements.
  - Nextgrid 4y ago
    As far as I know the aforementioned banks merely check for a credit bureau record (and absence of any fraud markers) to use for KYC as opposed to for credit eligibility, so if he's being rejected for those his problem is not creditworthiness but the complete lack of CRA record. It's unlikely he'll qualify for any credit card with absolutely zero records. His best bet is to open an account at a brick & mortar bank which will be able to verify his identity using physical documents and not only skip the CRA check, but actually create a CRA record (which can be a good or bad thing depending on your opinions regarding privacy). After a year or so, he should become eligible for those accounts accounts (if the lack of CRA record is truly what caused them to reject initially) and even qualify for a credit card if needed.
physicsguy 4y ago
Revolut still doesn’t have a UK banking license, so you’re not protected up to £85k like you are with a normal bank.

by mojuba 4y ago

Nextgrid 4y ago

I wouldn't consider Revolut ethical though. Revolut allowed people to open accounts immediately with no (or very soft) KYC but then had to limit (by law) the amount of money they could transact before passing stronger KYC. This led to a lot of people opening Revolut accounts, going abroad and ending up stranded with no access to their money once they've exhausted the initial limit, sometimes with no way to complete KYC at all if they didn't have the required documents on hand. The ethical approach here would've been to prevent these people from opening accounts without initial full KYC or have strong & persistent warnings about the issue to dissuade people from going abroad with a limited account, but who cares about people being stranded if you can have "growth" instead?

mojuba 4y ago
That's strange, I've used Revolut as my main account for years and never hit any limits. I suppose there's ATM withdrawal cap but I don't use cash much.
jozvolskyef 4y ago
See my sibling comment for a counterargument. I do agree with the warnings though.

shantnutiwari 4y ago

I gave up on Revolut after scandals about its CEO and financial shenanigans; and the many customer service nightmares. In banking, boring is better

mojuba 4y ago
> In banking, boring is better Exactly, you don't want to hand your money to a fancy organization that experiments with its PR and god knows what it does behind the scenes. Never heard about the scandals though, do you have any links?
oakesm9 4y ago
I tried boring with TSB. Their botched IT migration which left with me with no access to money for a few days and seeing other customer full account details when I signed in online causes some to switch to Monzo. They’re not perfect, and their app is getting noticeable worse for the fundamentals as they add more money making features like loans and flex, but I’ve still had no major issues in years.
- Nextgrid 4y ago
  You want "boring" but modern, competent "boring" such as Starling. It's modern but otherwise boring code (a Java monolith if I remember correctly), a modern app and is backed by a profitable, sustainable business with no "growth & engagement" smell.

karmakaze 4y ago

Just noticed the double entendre in 'we value your privacy'--your private data provides the $value.

nly 4y ago

The Revolut app is a hot mess though. Monzo have kept theirs clean l, focus and and useful.

antihero 4y ago
The Monzo app lags and chokes swiping between accounts on my brand new iPhone 13 Mini.
- nly 4y ago
  Works fine on Android
  - Nextgrid 4y ago
    They are using native apps so 2 different codebases, that would explain why you're not experiencing iOS-specific bugs.
Nextgrid 4y ago
Monzo's initial UI used to be amazing. I find their V2 UI terrible, and of course the various "growth & engagement" shenanigans don't help - feels more like a bullshit social media app than a tool that's supposed to hold & manage my money.

jozvolskyef 4y ago

I would try Monzo, but all I get from them is > Unfortunately we can't offer you a Monzo account > We're afraid we can't go into more detail about why we can't offer you an account. > We assess every application using details you've given us, and any information we get from the credit reference agencies we use (Experian and TrnsUnion) or from anti-fraud services like Cifas. Starling is the same. As a debt-free UK resident without any UK driver's licenses, utility bills, benefit claims, gun certificates, electoral register or GP records, the only bank that is willing to do business with me is Revolut. Not having any credit history is becoming a barrier to access more and more services that require an identity check. While it is understandable that companies want to protect themselves from fraud, this trend is making it difficult for people who don't have a credit history to access basic services. This is creating a significant barrier for certain groups of people, and it is something that should be addressed. When it comes to providing essential services to those who fall through the cracks, Revolut may be more ethical than the other options.

raesene9 4y ago
The problem of lacking credit history has been around for a long time, I remember getting a credit card, which I paid off in full every month, just to increase my credit score ~ 20 years ago. For people without a good credit history in the UK there is meant to be "basic bank accounts" which don't require credit checking as they don't offer overdrafts (https://www.moneyhelper.org.uk/en/everyday-money/banking/basic-bank-accounts https://www.moneyhelper.org.uk/en/everyday-money/banking/bas...) That said, you will still need proof of identity/address. If a bank is taking you on without those, I'd struggle to see how it's meeting KYC (Know your customer) requirements.
- Nextgrid 4y ago
  As far as I know the aforementioned banks merely check for a credit bureau record (and absence of any fraud markers) to use for KYC as opposed to for credit eligibility, so if he's being rejected for those his problem is not creditworthiness but the complete lack of CRA record. It's unlikely he'll qualify for any credit card with absolutely zero records. His best bet is to open an account at a brick & mortar bank which will be able to verify his identity using physical documents and not only skip the CRA check, but actually create a CRA record (which can be a good or bad thing depending on your opinions regarding privacy). After a year or so, he should become eligible for those accounts accounts (if the lack of CRA record is truly what caused them to reject initially) and even qualify for a credit card if needed.

physicsguy 4y ago

Revolut still doesn’t have a UK banking license, so you’re not protected up to £85k like you are with a normal bank.