4 ms·

if we are not even given any feedback as to why our applications were rejected, then it seems peremptory and a complete waste of time. Surely, they could have c

by juwo 19y ago

if we are not even given any feedback as to why our applications were rejected, then it seems peremptory and a complete waste of time. Surely, they could have copy-pasted even one summary line from their evaluation sheets? It is a simple courtesy.

andreyf 19y ago
Agreed, something like "think more about tech question", or "think harder about innovative idea" would have taken 10 seconds, but have been significantly more valuable to an applicant - and yes, it is courteous to do favors for someone when the effort you put into it is so dwarfed by the benefit they receive.
- staunch 19y ago
  As someone who has interviewed and hired quite a few people I disagree. I don't owe a rejected candidate anything. We both knew the arrangement ahead of time and both agreed it was worthwhile. We gave each other an opportunity and both contributed time to the process. We're even. I don't think this kind of entitlement-thinking will serve you very well. I recommend ditching it.
  - juwo 19y ago
    "I don't owe a rejected candidate anything" Not in the sense of owing him an explanation, but in the decent sense of giving him feedback so he can improve. After all, the candidate took time and trouble - it is a kindness. An application to YC is unlike an interview; with an interview you usually know what your weakness was, or what the interviewer's hangup was. If you consider this to be "entitlement-thinking", then does not your thinking seem arrogant? Actually, your thinking is a sign of weakness. When the candidate is stronger than you, or your decision was flippant, then you dont want to run the risk of being proven wrong or bested. So you choose the easy way out.
    - staunch 19y ago
      I would actually like to give feedback, out of friendliness and not because it's owed. Unfortunately, people with your attitude ruin it for the people that actually could handle it in a mature way.
    - far33d 19y ago
      A rejected YC application is much more like a trivially rejected resume than a rejected candidate who interviewed. Do you think employers have a responsibility to respond to every single resume that they get in the mail with detailed descriptions of where they can improve? Your complaints sound more like you are sour about being turned down than anything else.
      - juwo 19y ago
        No, it is not. It is actually more like a Department of Defense, Small Business Innovative Research (SBIR) proposal. Even if you are rejected, you can request feedback on your proposal - and actually, no less than in a meeting. Whenever I have given a demo or presentation to an angel investor or potential partner; even when it is a 'No', I have gotten some kind of feedback. It gave me a better understanding of the weaknesses in juwo. This is more than blindly emailing your executive summary to the VCs - you are not entitled to a reply. When there is investment in time, effort and hopes, one does expect some kind of feedback. It is not an application for an award, nor is it an application for employment. Even applying for a University, one has an idea of the cutoff marks and GRE scores. The YC application is an evaluation of your small business team, and idea. Big Difference.
    - sbraford 19y ago
      juwo: give it a rest dude. ever applied to Harvard, MIT, etc? even kids with IQs off the charts, SAT scores through the roof, etc. get rejected. It's simply the law of large numbers - YC can cherry pick the cream of the crop of the cream of the crop.
  - andreyf 19y ago
    "I don't owe a rejected candidate anything ... I don't think this kind of entitlement-thinking will serve you very well." I'm not saying you are morally obliged to, I'm saying it's the nice thing to do. For me personally, being nice is part of being courteous, which is why I used the more general word before.
- Tichy 19y ago
  I've heard that the most common situation where managers have a heart attack is when they have to fire somebody. Saying "No" is stressful, and thinking about doing it courteously is not easy. I know it takes me more than 10 seconds to think about a way to say such things nicely. And I think being too specific could make matters worse. Think about dating. "You are a nice person, but I don't really like your nose" - helpful? I think not, and the next person might be just fine with your nose. I think the generic letter YC sent (I got one, too) is a good solution. And I could imagine that if you would ask them, they might be willing to give you more specific information.
  - juwo 19y ago
    It's not dating. see http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32488 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32488 "And I could imagine that if you would ask them, they might be willing to give you more specific information." Not so.
pg 19y ago
It would not seem courteous, believe me. Some fraction of the people who apply to YC are nuts. If you have a web site where you offer money to people who fill out an application form, nuts apply. Are we supposed to tell them they're nuts?
- dbosson 19y ago
  Yes, you should be candid with people regardless of the circumstances. Doing so makes life more efficient for everyone.
- far33d 19y ago
  Colleges don't tell you why you didn't get in. Companies don't tell you why they never called you back after you sent in a resume. Why would you expect any more from YC?
- juwo 19y ago
  how about this? "we could not understand your idea. please get feedback as to its feasibility from your local university, or someone with experience in the software industry"
  - dhouston 19y ago
    dude, give it a rest. and read: http://blog.pmarca.com/2007/06/the_pmarca_guid_2.html http://blog.pmarca.com/2007/06/the_pmarca_guid_2.html yc's already given you something better than what you'd get out of a canned one-sentence response: a fantastic resource in which anyone can put up their site and get a lot of feedback, for free, from a lot of smart people. 100% of the "hey news.yc check out my site" posts i've seen, including yours, have gotten useful, actionable feedback and have consequently improved.
    - juwo 19y ago
      "posts i've seen, including yours, have gotten useful, actionable feedback and have consequently improved." I agree :)
- 19y ago

by juwo 19y ago

andreyf 19y ago

Agreed, something like "think more about tech question", or "think harder about innovative idea" would have taken 10 seconds, but have been significantly more valuable to an applicant - and yes, it is courteous to do favors for someone when the effort you put into it is so dwarfed by the benefit they receive.

staunch 19y ago
As someone who has interviewed and hired quite a few people I disagree. I don't owe a rejected candidate anything. We both knew the arrangement ahead of time and both agreed it was worthwhile. We gave each other an opportunity and both contributed time to the process. We're even. I don't think this kind of entitlement-thinking will serve you very well. I recommend ditching it.
- juwo 19y ago
  "I don't owe a rejected candidate anything" Not in the sense of owing him an explanation, but in the decent sense of giving him feedback so he can improve. After all, the candidate took time and trouble - it is a kindness. An application to YC is unlike an interview; with an interview you usually know what your weakness was, or what the interviewer's hangup was. If you consider this to be "entitlement-thinking", then does not your thinking seem arrogant? Actually, your thinking is a sign of weakness. When the candidate is stronger than you, or your decision was flippant, then you dont want to run the risk of being proven wrong or bested. So you choose the easy way out.
  - staunch 19y ago
    I would actually like to give feedback, out of friendliness and not because it's owed. Unfortunately, people with your attitude ruin it for the people that actually could handle it in a mature way.
  - far33d 19y ago
    A rejected YC application is much more like a trivially rejected resume than a rejected candidate who interviewed. Do you think employers have a responsibility to respond to every single resume that they get in the mail with detailed descriptions of where they can improve? Your complaints sound more like you are sour about being turned down than anything else.
    - juwo 19y ago
      No, it is not. It is actually more like a Department of Defense, Small Business Innovative Research (SBIR) proposal. Even if you are rejected, you can request feedback on your proposal - and actually, no less than in a meeting. Whenever I have given a demo or presentation to an angel investor or potential partner; even when it is a 'No', I have gotten some kind of feedback. It gave me a better understanding of the weaknesses in juwo. This is more than blindly emailing your executive summary to the VCs - you are not entitled to a reply. When there is investment in time, effort and hopes, one does expect some kind of feedback. It is not an application for an award, nor is it an application for employment. Even applying for a University, one has an idea of the cutoff marks and GRE scores. The YC application is an evaluation of your small business team, and idea. Big Difference.
  - sbraford 19y ago
    juwo: give it a rest dude. ever applied to Harvard, MIT, etc? even kids with IQs off the charts, SAT scores through the roof, etc. get rejected. It's simply the law of large numbers - YC can cherry pick the cream of the crop of the cream of the crop.
- andreyf 19y ago
  "I don't owe a rejected candidate anything ... I don't think this kind of entitlement-thinking will serve you very well." I'm not saying you are morally obliged to, I'm saying it's the nice thing to do. For me personally, being nice is part of being courteous, which is why I used the more general word before.
Tichy 19y ago
I've heard that the most common situation where managers have a heart attack is when they have to fire somebody. Saying "No" is stressful, and thinking about doing it courteously is not easy. I know it takes me more than 10 seconds to think about a way to say such things nicely. And I think being too specific could make matters worse. Think about dating. "You are a nice person, but I don't really like your nose" - helpful? I think not, and the next person might be just fine with your nose. I think the generic letter YC sent (I got one, too) is a good solution. And I could imagine that if you would ask them, they might be willing to give you more specific information.
- juwo 19y ago
  It's not dating. see http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32488 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32488 "And I could imagine that if you would ask them, they might be willing to give you more specific information." Not so.

pg 19y ago

It would not seem courteous, believe me. Some fraction of the people who apply to YC are nuts. If you have a web site where you offer money to people who fill out an application form, nuts apply. Are we supposed to tell them they're nuts?

dbosson 19y ago
Yes, you should be candid with people regardless of the circumstances. Doing so makes life more efficient for everyone.
far33d 19y ago
Colleges don't tell you why you didn't get in. Companies don't tell you why they never called you back after you sent in a resume. Why would you expect any more from YC?
juwo 19y ago
how about this? "we could not understand your idea. please get feedback as to its feasibility from your local university, or someone with experience in the software industry"
- dhouston 19y ago
  dude, give it a rest. and read: http://blog.pmarca.com/2007/06/the_pmarca_guid_2.html http://blog.pmarca.com/2007/06/the_pmarca_guid_2.html yc's already given you something better than what you'd get out of a canned one-sentence response: a fantastic resource in which anyone can put up their site and get a lot of feedback, for free, from a lot of smart people. 100% of the "hey news.yc check out my site" posts i've seen, including yours, have gotten useful, actionable feedback and have consequently improved.
  - juwo 19y ago
    "posts i've seen, including yours, have gotten useful, actionable feedback and have consequently improved." I agree :)
19y ago