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Jonathan Haidt speaks about something similar in The Happiness Hypothesis. Epiphanies can only take you so far, before their novelty wears off and they lose the

Jonathan Haidt speaks about something similar in The Happiness Hypothesis. Epiphanies can only take you so far, before their novelty wears off and they lose the power to change your behaviour. This is why self-help book readers tend to keep reading self-help books. 4 weeks after finishing one they need another hit of epiphanies. Even the lamest examples listed in the OP article can probably give someone a boost in productivity for a while, as long as that epiphanic rush lasts. I've felt this in myself over the years. I'd hit a low point and try to hoist myself out of it, with some sombre new ethical code for creating a work ethic; some new note taking system; or epiphany gleaned from Shakespeare or Nietzsche. You can see it in the Jordan Peterson clips that haunt my YouTube shorts.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
ipython 4y ago
Damn. Now I need to read that book next…
philipodonnell 4y ago
"Epiphanic rush" is such a accurate but bittersweet term for this. It must be so ingrained in human psychology from the days of shamans, prophets and sages.
- jackling 4y ago
  "days of shamans, prophets and sages" Are these really examples of what is described? The spiritualism gained from those entities persist to this day. Wars were fought and people continue to live by what those entities taught. Sounds different from the short lived rush that is being discussed.
- andrewflnr 4y ago
  Pretty sure "shamans, prophets and sages" are effects, not causes, of that particular piece of psychology.
BoredPuffin 4y ago
I didn't read/listen to Haidt's The Happiness Hypothesis, but from what you described, he sounded spot on. But can I also say that as long as it works, there's nothing wrong with it? Some people wind down by jogging, playing video games, watching action movies etc; yours happened to be reading self-help book. The problem is when one overdoes it, regardless of the activities they've chosen.
WA 4y ago
Just consume new epiphanies until you die and you lived a very happy life.
recyclelater 4y ago
Jocko willinck (and many others I am sure) likes to state that you can’t rely on motivation because it comes and goes. Rely on discipline, build habits using discipline if you want to get anything done. A trite but in my opinion helpful statement is discipline equals freedom.
- layer8 4y ago
  That sounds like insight porn. How do you build discipline if you’re undisciplined? How do you decide what to be disciplined about?
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - bitexploder 4y ago
    Stuff that you value. It is a simple and long term system specifically to maintain long term consistency. It just isn’t easy to do.
  - recyclelater 4y ago
    I don’t consider that to be insight porn, which is why I found it personally valuable. I feel this is a fundamental law of getting anything done. There’s almost nothing that I actually want to do for extended period of times, but I want the result from having done that thing a bunch. For example, it’s really hard to go outside and practice archery every day, but I have to do that in order to have the result of those skills - a successful archery hunt. How do I get the results when I am way past the first month or so where motivation is waning? I have to have the discipline to work toward my goal, regardless of how I feel in the moment. I found this insight for lack of a better word to be so fundamental that I was floored when I read it in jocko’s kids book. I saw my dad do this, he clearly embodied this value and demonstrated it while raising me, but no one ever explained it to me. For a goofy comparison, I would consider “discipline equals freedom “ to be love making between a happily married couple, and blog spam insight porn to be actual porn.
  - anotheruser092 4y ago
wholinator2 4y ago
Yeah, I agree. Though I will say that doesn't mean epiphanies aren't valuable long term. A little boost to get you started might translate into a huge change in personal circumstances 10 years after that small boost. Without a couple months with Jordan Peterson relaying not just the possibility but the nobility of looking people in the eyes, entering the forest at the place that looks darkest to you, etc. I would almost certainly not be here typing this. Such basic truths spruced up with a gleaming coating of old reverent narrative and ancient godlike significance through vigorous sermon is exactly the small boost I required to make the most significant and important change I've ever made in my life. I know he's quite controversial these days but you cannot deny the man has channeled something very powerful (at least as the non-explicitely-political material goes, I choose not to watch his politics)
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- jackling 4y ago
  What always surprised me about Peterson was the fact that so many people swear by his videos. There's multiple claims about how his videos changed their lives or saved them. However, his methodology couldn't keep his own life from going awry.
  - wholinator2 4y ago
    What exactly has gone awry? I mean, he had some serious troubles when his wife came extremely close to death very suddenly from a terrible illness but who could stay fine watching their high school sweetheart and only love ever rapidly wither right as their lives started to take off together. Or are you talking about the political aspect? If so I really see nothing going 'awry', he's making choices, certainly not begging for money. Someone may not like what he says or who he talks with but that does not constitute a life 'going awry' inasmuch as his supposed teachings would help avoid
daniel-cussen 4y ago
Yeah epiphanies don't actually do any work for themselves.
bheadmaster 4y ago
> Epiphanies can only take you so far, before their novelty wears off and they lose the power to change your behaviour. Funny, I've experienced the same thing with philosophy. In my teens, I've had this existential crisis where the world just didn't make sense to me. Eventually I have discovered philosophy and started reading it, and for a while the world made sense to me. However, every epiphany I've had about the world only kept my enthusiasm up for a while - after some time I'd still know all the things I learned, but they just wouldn't seem as important as before. The world made sense... But I just didn't like the way it made sense. That's when I realized that the problem is me, not the world, and that the problem cannot be solved by pure knowledge - there is an animal inside me which doesn't give a rat's ass about all my theories of why and how, and requires a different approach.
- omghilarious 4y ago
SkyPuncher 4y ago
> This is why self-help book readers tend to keep reading self-help books. 4 weeks after finishing one they need another hit of epiphanies. I read a lot of business books that could be categorized as "self-help". I tend to continuously read them because 1. I'm aware how difficult behavior change 2. It's valuable to have more than 1 perspective. 3. Few things have had an outsized impact on my career. I do not know what those are until weeks/months/years after reading a book. For me, I'm not looking to read a single book to emulate it fully. I'm looking to read 4 or 5 books, shape my overall perspective, then have 2 to 4 things stick very, very deeply. Lastly, I can always come back to a specific book when I loosely remember it being applicable.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

ipython 4y ago

Damn. Now I need to read that book next…

philipodonnell 4y ago

"Epiphanic rush" is such a accurate but bittersweet term for this. It must be so ingrained in human psychology from the days of shamans, prophets and sages.

jackling 4y ago
"days of shamans, prophets and sages" Are these really examples of what is described? The spiritualism gained from those entities persist to this day. Wars were fought and people continue to live by what those entities taught. Sounds different from the short lived rush that is being discussed.
andrewflnr 4y ago
Pretty sure "shamans, prophets and sages" are effects, not causes, of that particular piece of psychology.

BoredPuffin 4y ago

I didn't read/listen to Haidt's The Happiness Hypothesis, but from what you described, he sounded spot on. But can I also say that as long as it works, there's nothing wrong with it? Some people wind down by jogging, playing video games, watching action movies etc; yours happened to be reading self-help book. The problem is when one overdoes it, regardless of the activities they've chosen.

WA 4y ago

Just consume new epiphanies until you die and you lived a very happy life.

recyclelater 4y ago

Jocko willinck (and many others I am sure) likes to state that you can’t rely on motivation because it comes and goes. Rely on discipline, build habits using discipline if you want to get anything done. A trite but in my opinion helpful statement is discipline equals freedom.

layer8 4y ago
That sounds like insight porn. How do you build discipline if you’re undisciplined? How do you decide what to be disciplined about?
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- bitexploder 4y ago
  Stuff that you value. It is a simple and long term system specifically to maintain long term consistency. It just isn’t easy to do.
- recyclelater 4y ago
  I don’t consider that to be insight porn, which is why I found it personally valuable. I feel this is a fundamental law of getting anything done. There’s almost nothing that I actually want to do for extended period of times, but I want the result from having done that thing a bunch. For example, it’s really hard to go outside and practice archery every day, but I have to do that in order to have the result of those skills - a successful archery hunt. How do I get the results when I am way past the first month or so where motivation is waning? I have to have the discipline to work toward my goal, regardless of how I feel in the moment. I found this insight for lack of a better word to be so fundamental that I was floored when I read it in jocko’s kids book. I saw my dad do this, he clearly embodied this value and demonstrated it while raising me, but no one ever explained it to me. For a goofy comparison, I would consider “discipline equals freedom “ to be love making between a happily married couple, and blog spam insight porn to be actual porn.
- anotheruser092 4y ago

wholinator2 4y ago

Yeah, I agree. Though I will say that doesn't mean epiphanies aren't valuable long term. A little boost to get you started might translate into a huge change in personal circumstances 10 years after that small boost. Without a couple months with Jordan Peterson relaying not just the possibility but the nobility of looking people in the eyes, entering the forest at the place that looks darkest to you, etc. I would almost certainly not be here typing this. Such basic truths spruced up with a gleaming coating of old reverent narrative and ancient godlike significance through vigorous sermon is exactly the small boost I required to make the most significant and important change I've ever made in my life. I know he's quite controversial these days but you cannot deny the man has channeled something very powerful (at least as the non-explicitely-political material goes, I choose not to watch his politics)

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
jackling 4y ago
What always surprised me about Peterson was the fact that so many people swear by his videos. There's multiple claims about how his videos changed their lives or saved them. However, his methodology couldn't keep his own life from going awry.
- wholinator2 4y ago
  What exactly has gone awry? I mean, he had some serious troubles when his wife came extremely close to death very suddenly from a terrible illness but who could stay fine watching their high school sweetheart and only love ever rapidly wither right as their lives started to take off together. Or are you talking about the political aspect? If so I really see nothing going 'awry', he's making choices, certainly not begging for money. Someone may not like what he says or who he talks with but that does not constitute a life 'going awry' inasmuch as his supposed teachings would help avoid

daniel-cussen 4y ago

Yeah epiphanies don't actually do any work for themselves.

bheadmaster 4y ago

> Epiphanies can only take you so far, before their novelty wears off and they lose the power to change your behaviour. Funny, I've experienced the same thing with philosophy. In my teens, I've had this existential crisis where the world just didn't make sense to me. Eventually I have discovered philosophy and started reading it, and for a while the world made sense to me. However, every epiphany I've had about the world only kept my enthusiasm up for a while - after some time I'd still know all the things I learned, but they just wouldn't seem as important as before. The world made sense... But I just didn't like the way it made sense. That's when I realized that the problem is me, not the world, and that the problem cannot be solved by pure knowledge - there is an animal inside me which doesn't give a rat's ass about all my theories of why and how, and requires a different approach.

omghilarious 4y ago

SkyPuncher 4y ago

> This is why self-help book readers tend to keep reading self-help books. 4 weeks after finishing one they need another hit of epiphanies. I read a lot of business books that could be categorized as "self-help". I tend to continuously read them because 1. I'm aware how difficult behavior change 2. It's valuable to have more than 1 perspective. 3. Few things have had an outsized impact on my career. I do not know what those are until weeks/months/years after reading a book. For me, I'm not looking to read a single book to emulate it fully. I'm looking to read 4 or 5 books, shape my overall perspective, then have 2 to 4 things stick very, very deeply. Lastly, I can always come back to a specific book when I loosely remember it being applicable.