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>but Mac OS doesn’t require so much fighting That's probably because you're used to it so you're biased without even realizing you're biased, since everything

>but Mac OS doesn’t require so much fighting That's probably because you're used to it so you're biased without even realizing you're biased, since everything is second nature to you at this point, but give a person new to the Apple ecosystem a Mac and see what happens. When I first touched a MacBook a few years ago, during a job interview, I bombed it because, as a long term user of Windows and Linux, instead of being able to focus on coding the sorting algorithm, I was too busy fighting MacOS (some swipe gesture on the touchpad or some hot corner hid away my coding window and browser or the entire virtual desktop, and I didn't know how to restore them to get back to work). So yea, to me, MacOS is horrible for first time users as it's full of these hidden cryptic gotchas.

nicbou 4y ago
There's a big difference between "I struggle to use a new technology" and "I am familiar with this technology, but it's built to serve its own ends over mine"
- ChuckNorris89 4y ago
  Maybe good technology shouldn't require (even tech savvy) users to struggle with it. IIRC Motorola (or someone else, maybe Braun, I can't remember exactly who) originally had a philosophy, which Apple later also adopted, but seems to have forgotten about lately, which stated that "if a user actually needs to pull out the manual in order to figure out how to use the product, then the product is a UX failure". Like I said before, and I'm saying it as a fan of your work, but your viewpoint on the OS has little substance in it and can be shortened to "I just like MacOS and I really hate Windows, period", which would have been fairer to say than your original one liner which seems heavily biased, as you did not provide any arguments to why one is better than the other. Not saying Linux or Windows are better but at least I gave you precise example from my personal life where MacOS just bombs new users completely and I can in no way crown it a great UX example that gets out of your way and lets you get work done. Each to his own of course, but for healthy debates it's good to provide some arguments and comparison points when picking out winners over losers instead of just throwing hot personal opinions around as facts. Like, you say you "refuse to go near Windows", which is fine, but how can I trust your unbiased opinion on it when you didn't go near it? Would you believe a car review from someone who didn't actually drive the car?
  - nicbou 4y ago
    > can be shortened to "I just like MacOS and I really hate Windows, period" Which is a perfectly reasonable stance. I have used Mac OS, Windows and Linux for many years each, and Mac OS is the one that supports my use case the best. If your experience differs and you picked something else, that's fine too. There are no winners and losers, because those choices are not part of our identity. I'd be happy if we could move past that, because one more year of this debate won't settle anything.
deleted 4y ago
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nicbou 4y ago

There's a big difference between "I struggle to use a new technology" and "I am familiar with this technology, but it's built to serve its own ends over mine"

ChuckNorris89 4y ago
Maybe good technology shouldn't require (even tech savvy) users to struggle with it. IIRC Motorola (or someone else, maybe Braun, I can't remember exactly who) originally had a philosophy, which Apple later also adopted, but seems to have forgotten about lately, which stated that "if a user actually needs to pull out the manual in order to figure out how to use the product, then the product is a UX failure". Like I said before, and I'm saying it as a fan of your work, but your viewpoint on the OS has little substance in it and can be shortened to "I just like MacOS and I really hate Windows, period", which would have been fairer to say than your original one liner which seems heavily biased, as you did not provide any arguments to why one is better than the other. Not saying Linux or Windows are better but at least I gave you precise example from my personal life where MacOS just bombs new users completely and I can in no way crown it a great UX example that gets out of your way and lets you get work done. Each to his own of course, but for healthy debates it's good to provide some arguments and comparison points when picking out winners over losers instead of just throwing hot personal opinions around as facts. Like, you say you "refuse to go near Windows", which is fine, but how can I trust your unbiased opinion on it when you didn't go near it? Would you believe a car review from someone who didn't actually drive the car?
- nicbou 4y ago
  > can be shortened to "I just like MacOS and I really hate Windows, period" Which is a perfectly reasonable stance. I have used Mac OS, Windows and Linux for many years each, and Mac OS is the one that supports my use case the best. If your experience differs and you picked something else, that's fine too. There are no winners and losers, because those choices are not part of our identity. I'd be happy if we could move past that, because one more year of this debate won't settle anything.

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