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A good account of the ideological battle still playing out in the UK, particularly the one-dimensional anti-intellectualism of the vacuous financial classes now

A good account of the ideological battle still playing out in the UK, particularly the one-dimensional anti-intellectualism of the vacuous financial classes now exclusively constituting the Tory party. Britain's descent from the powerhouse of world-changing ideas to one giant housing estate and Tesco superstore is almost complete.

defrost 4y ago
There's some nice highlighting of foot-shoot as a bonus: > The UK arts sector includes film, media, computer games, and music: it's one of the UK's most profitable export industries. For every £1 of government money going into it, roughly £5 in foreign earnings comes back. > But it's ideologically suspect to gammons' eyes. Gammons—the Tory party membership, whose support Sunak is canvassing—are predominantly white males aged over 60 living in the South East of England, authoritarian by inclination and well-off but poorly educated.
- soco 4y ago
  I'd say they are only misusing the power given to them by the apathy of the other categories.
aqsalose 4y ago
>Britain's descent from the powerhouse of world-changing ideas to one giant housing estate and Tesco superstore is almost complete. In my limited foreigner's understanding, Britain was "the powerhouse of world-changing ideas" during period that has fuzzy limits but starts maybe around Newton and continues until maybe Turing -- but after WW2, what was left the powerhouse was certainly eclipsed by the US, and after the 1980s, Asiancountries. Maybe one can stretch it bit further after the WW2 if one thinks that popular culture production like Beatles is a worthwhile substitute. [1] How was the education in Britain organized during that era? [1] I don't; AFAIK income distribution in popular culture production is very winner-takes-all top-heavy, much worse than the software income distribution often denigrated as favoring the 10X developers. 10X coders may make much more than a marginal software developer (I am imagining soon-to-graduate CS student who would-be entry-level dev who has difficulties getting the first interview), but I believe it easier for the marginal software developer land a software job that pays the bills than for a marginal would-be musician to land a music job that pays the bills.
- zozbot234 4y ago
  > How was the education in Britain organized during that era? Mostly, intensive one-on-one tutoring starting at a very early age. See https://erikhoel.substack.com/p/why-we-stopped-making-einsteins https://erikhoel.substack.com/p/why-we-stopped-making-einste...
  - nonrandomstring 4y ago
    That's generally accurate. The heavy hitters, with a few exceptions like Faraday, were of noble ancestry or otherwise privileged. We really need to look to the Americans, to Horace Mann and John Dewey who understood the wider non-functional ends of education; nation building, supporting democracy, living a happy life etc. That fed back into British society mainly post-war, driven by the need to rebuild a devastated society. Today, in our coddled complacency, that seems far away and 'optional'.
melony 4y ago
The Tory ministers consist overwhelmingly of PPE grads, I don't think they are truly anti intellectual.
- moreati 4y ago
  PPE is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophy,_politics_and_economics https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophy,_politics_and_econo... for anyone else unsure
- n4r9 4y ago
  From what I've read, PPE is geared specifically towards people undertaking careers in politics or the civil service. It's way down on the list of courses whose intellectual value is separate from their economic utility.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
rob_c 4y ago
Hah, loving it. Except I grew up in part of the country with gun violence (yes a UK labour stronghold too), still got a degree, a post doc, a job and a decent income and would never vote labor or green due to their broken policies. (Selling/merging schools, anti nuclear, broken secterian policies to appeal to fringe groups, etc.) Anti intellectualism isn't being driven by tribal politics on this side of the pond so please refrain from spouting such nonsense.
- n4r9 4y ago
  Anti-intellectualism is a central part of the ideology championed by a party whose ministers express statements like "The people of this country have had enough of experts" and who rail against "metropolitan elites". Your life story - interesting though it is - and a list of policies you disagree with are neither here nor there.
  - rob_c 4y ago
    Again Anti-intellectualism is centre piece in society and has risen to the point if being reveered across the pond asin "being too geeky" having negative connotations. Don't pretend this is a simple matter of party politics, you're not a hammer and this is not a nail. It's a large cross-partisan social ill which is only fixed by people working together not insisting "it's all his fault". The blue are guilty of their own politico-crimes, insider trading, favouritism/nepotism, classism and alike (we could go on), don't go making up justifications for them not being reputable they can do it on their own. Again, rampant anti-intellectualism is party policy of most parties. Greens (anti-nuclear given it's low carbon footprint), Labour (import more people rather than invest in the NHS in the good times by raising taxes), SNP (waa freedom), Brexit/GBP/???(whatever they call themselves, the backbencher OAPs calling for a return to the mythical 'good ol days'). There isn't a single party aspousing anything close to meritocracy. The closest we got to that was cummings who frankly has a lot to answer for, for trusting idiot 'data scientists' who luncheon with him in the boys clubs. He at least drove solid policy based on input from peers, even if it turns out his peers can't tell the difference between the black death and a sniffle.
klelatti 4y ago
Part of this is the end of British national capitalism as per David Edgerton [1]. Tory party donors run hedge funds and property portfolios - and have little or no interest in long term industrial and commercial prosperity. Allowing Arm to be sold to the highest bidder was probably the clearest recent expression of this. [1] https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2019/11/how-britain-was-sold https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2019/11/how-britain-wa...

defrost 4y ago

There's some nice highlighting of foot-shoot as a bonus: > The UK arts sector includes film, media, computer games, and music: it's one of the UK's most profitable export industries. For every £1 of government money going into it, roughly £5 in foreign earnings comes back. > But it's ideologically suspect to gammons' eyes. Gammons—the Tory party membership, whose support Sunak is canvassing—are predominantly white males aged over 60 living in the South East of England, authoritarian by inclination and well-off but poorly educated.

soco 4y ago
I'd say they are only misusing the power given to them by the apathy of the other categories.

aqsalose 4y ago

>Britain's descent from the powerhouse of world-changing ideas to one giant housing estate and Tesco superstore is almost complete. In my limited foreigner's understanding, Britain was "the powerhouse of world-changing ideas" during period that has fuzzy limits but starts maybe around Newton and continues until maybe Turing -- but after WW2, what was left the powerhouse was certainly eclipsed by the US, and after the 1980s, Asiancountries. Maybe one can stretch it bit further after the WW2 if one thinks that popular culture production like Beatles is a worthwhile substitute. [1] How was the education in Britain organized during that era? [1] I don't; AFAIK income distribution in popular culture production is very winner-takes-all top-heavy, much worse than the software income distribution often denigrated as favoring the 10X developers. 10X coders may make much more than a marginal software developer (I am imagining soon-to-graduate CS student who would-be entry-level dev who has difficulties getting the first interview), but I believe it easier for the marginal software developer land a software job that pays the bills than for a marginal would-be musician to land a music job that pays the bills.

zozbot234 4y ago
> How was the education in Britain organized during that era? Mostly, intensive one-on-one tutoring starting at a very early age. See https://erikhoel.substack.com/p/why-we-stopped-making-einsteins https://erikhoel.substack.com/p/why-we-stopped-making-einste...
- nonrandomstring 4y ago
  That's generally accurate. The heavy hitters, with a few exceptions like Faraday, were of noble ancestry or otherwise privileged. We really need to look to the Americans, to Horace Mann and John Dewey who understood the wider non-functional ends of education; nation building, supporting democracy, living a happy life etc. That fed back into British society mainly post-war, driven by the need to rebuild a devastated society. Today, in our coddled complacency, that seems far away and 'optional'.

melony 4y ago

The Tory ministers consist overwhelmingly of PPE grads, I don't think they are truly anti intellectual.

moreati 4y ago
PPE is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophy,_politics_and_economics https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophy,_politics_and_econo... for anyone else unsure
n4r9 4y ago
From what I've read, PPE is geared specifically towards people undertaking careers in politics or the civil service. It's way down on the list of courses whose intellectual value is separate from their economic utility.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

rob_c 4y ago

Hah, loving it. Except I grew up in part of the country with gun violence (yes a UK labour stronghold too), still got a degree, a post doc, a job and a decent income and would never vote labor or green due to their broken policies. (Selling/merging schools, anti nuclear, broken secterian policies to appeal to fringe groups, etc.) Anti intellectualism isn't being driven by tribal politics on this side of the pond so please refrain from spouting such nonsense.

n4r9 4y ago
Anti-intellectualism is a central part of the ideology championed by a party whose ministers express statements like "The people of this country have had enough of experts" and who rail against "metropolitan elites". Your life story - interesting though it is - and a list of policies you disagree with are neither here nor there.
- rob_c 4y ago
  Again Anti-intellectualism is centre piece in society and has risen to the point if being reveered across the pond asin "being too geeky" having negative connotations. Don't pretend this is a simple matter of party politics, you're not a hammer and this is not a nail. It's a large cross-partisan social ill which is only fixed by people working together not insisting "it's all his fault". The blue are guilty of their own politico-crimes, insider trading, favouritism/nepotism, classism and alike (we could go on), don't go making up justifications for them not being reputable they can do it on their own. Again, rampant anti-intellectualism is party policy of most parties. Greens (anti-nuclear given it's low carbon footprint), Labour (import more people rather than invest in the NHS in the good times by raising taxes), SNP (waa freedom), Brexit/GBP/???(whatever they call themselves, the backbencher OAPs calling for a return to the mythical 'good ol days'). There isn't a single party aspousing anything close to meritocracy. The closest we got to that was cummings who frankly has a lot to answer for, for trusting idiot 'data scientists' who luncheon with him in the boys clubs. He at least drove solid policy based on input from peers, even if it turns out his peers can't tell the difference between the black death and a sniffle.

klelatti 4y ago

Part of this is the end of British national capitalism as per David Edgerton [1]. Tory party donors run hedge funds and property portfolios - and have little or no interest in long term industrial and commercial prosperity. Allowing Arm to be sold to the highest bidder was probably the clearest recent expression of this. [1] https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2019/11/how-britain-was-sold https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2019/11/how-britain-wa...