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The "event-based" paradigm is a useful way to orchestrate software. I wonder why it's not used to orchestrate people. A rule of thumb would be "every meeting mu

The "event-based" paradigm is a useful way to orchestrate software. I wonder why it's not used to orchestrate people. A rule of thumb would be "every meeting must have a reason - an event that lead to it". Why do we even have to have a fixed, recurring meeting? That's equivalent to polling a server periodically and asking "hey, any event happened?" - which is extremely unscalable, and should be done only in situations when malfunction of event-driven mechanics is expected. Same with people - if an employee is trusted, meetings with them should only happen on an event - when there is a change of plans, some new work to be done, et cetera. We have asychronous communication - so why not asychronous organization?

js8 4y ago
Because project managers, who invent these things, don't know enough computer science. The next question you might asks is, why other people need to know immediately what other people are working? Why cannot there be a dedicated thread (aka PM) who collects this information and makes it available? Project management would benefit by bringing concepts from operating systems such as scheduling or task switching.
- paskozdilar 4y ago
  > Project management would benefit by bringing concepts from operating systems such as scheduling or task switching. I agree. Perhaps this is a good time for a Free Software organizational tool, built on such principles.
- nprateem 4y ago
  Ha ha almost. It should be: Because project managers, who invent these things don't want to make themselves redundant. It's only by pushing the falsehood that the team is so incompetent as to require handholding from someone who likes moving tickets around that they're able to stay in a cushy job.
  - pantulis 4y ago
    Was Agile invented by PMs?
    - yakshaving_jgt 4y ago
      That's a bit of a red herring. How Agile looks today doesn't bear much resemblance to how Agile was described in the manifesto.
      - pantulis 4y ago
        Fair point! The interesting thing is: if Agile was invented by software engineers, how come it ended up disfigured in the hands of PMs, reinvented as Agile Coaches? My 2c theory: because the tenets of the Manifesto do not generate interest on the average developer demographics.
        paskozdilar 4y ago
        Because it's much easier to implement a set of concrete guidelines (have a daily meeting, use story points, etc) and turn them intro strict rules, than to implement the more fundamental but less concrete guidelines (individuals and interactions over processes and tools). The same reason folk religion often focuses on hard, measurable rules (don't work on X, don't eat Y) instead of the more fundamental abstract ones (treat your fellow man as you want him to treat you).
  - intelVISA 4y ago
    Alarmingly accurate, I think most PMs accept that their role is a sort of well-intentioned grift.
tchalla 4y ago
Since you’re convinced about it, have you considered trying it out?
- paskozdilar 4y ago
  I feel some negativity from this question, but I will disregard those feelings as unfounded and try to answer in the best faith possible. No, I have not considered trying it out, for a simple reason - I don't control any organization nor work in a management position, so I don't really have a chance to do so. I'd like to believe that I would try out all those things that come to my mind, if I were to have a chance to do so.
nivertech 4y ago
Because it was invented for enterprise/consulting shops, not for product/tech companies. For any real dev daily standups sounds as an idiotic practice. If you're team is so disorganized that they can't collaborate effectively using bazillion of existing tools, and without hand holding/baby sitting of the "Scrum Master", then it's better to fire everyone, and build a new one.
BlargMcLarg 4y ago
Global infantilization. The most common counter to the idea is "but some people don't communicate because "new/inexperienced/personality". Despite being expected to be fully functional adults in many ways and frequently given far more freedom as kids, status quo management seems hellbent on making adults seem incapable of basic communication in a corporate setting. I don't necessarily disagree with that notion, but there are a lot of inconsistencies if that's the limit of what can be expected from an adult (Why are drinking, driving and taking on massive loans allowed?). Plus in the context of software development, we can easily set up automated communication frameworks to catch the majority of it.
- somewhereoutth 4y ago
  An infantilized workforce is a weak, controllable, unthreatening, cheap workforce.

js8 4y ago

Because project managers, who invent these things, don't know enough computer science. The next question you might asks is, why other people need to know immediately what other people are working? Why cannot there be a dedicated thread (aka PM) who collects this information and makes it available? Project management would benefit by bringing concepts from operating systems such as scheduling or task switching.

paskozdilar 4y ago
> Project management would benefit by bringing concepts from operating systems such as scheduling or task switching. I agree. Perhaps this is a good time for a Free Software organizational tool, built on such principles.
nprateem 4y ago
Ha ha almost. It should be: Because project managers, who invent these things don't want to make themselves redundant. It's only by pushing the falsehood that the team is so incompetent as to require handholding from someone who likes moving tickets around that they're able to stay in a cushy job.
- pantulis 4y ago
  Was Agile invented by PMs?
  - yakshaving_jgt 4y ago
    That's a bit of a red herring. How Agile looks today doesn't bear much resemblance to how Agile was described in the manifesto.
    - pantulis 4y ago
      Fair point! The interesting thing is: if Agile was invented by software engineers, how come it ended up disfigured in the hands of PMs, reinvented as Agile Coaches? My 2c theory: because the tenets of the Manifesto do not generate interest on the average developer demographics.
      - paskozdilar 4y ago
        Because it's much easier to implement a set of concrete guidelines (have a daily meeting, use story points, etc) and turn them intro strict rules, than to implement the more fundamental but less concrete guidelines (individuals and interactions over processes and tools). The same reason folk religion often focuses on hard, measurable rules (don't work on X, don't eat Y) instead of the more fundamental abstract ones (treat your fellow man as you want him to treat you).
- intelVISA 4y ago
  Alarmingly accurate, I think most PMs accept that their role is a sort of well-intentioned grift.

tchalla 4y ago

Since you’re convinced about it, have you considered trying it out?

paskozdilar 4y ago
I feel some negativity from this question, but I will disregard those feelings as unfounded and try to answer in the best faith possible. No, I have not considered trying it out, for a simple reason - I don't control any organization nor work in a management position, so I don't really have a chance to do so. I'd like to believe that I would try out all those things that come to my mind, if I were to have a chance to do so.

nivertech 4y ago

Because it was invented for enterprise/consulting shops, not for product/tech companies. For any real dev daily standups sounds as an idiotic practice. If you're team is so disorganized that they can't collaborate effectively using bazillion of existing tools, and without hand holding/baby sitting of the "Scrum Master", then it's better to fire everyone, and build a new one.

BlargMcLarg 4y ago

Global infantilization. The most common counter to the idea is "but some people don't communicate because "new/inexperienced/personality". Despite being expected to be fully functional adults in many ways and frequently given far more freedom as kids, status quo management seems hellbent on making adults seem incapable of basic communication in a corporate setting. I don't necessarily disagree with that notion, but there are a lot of inconsistencies if that's the limit of what can be expected from an adult (Why are drinking, driving and taking on massive loans allowed?). Plus in the context of software development, we can easily set up automated communication frameworks to catch the majority of it.

somewhereoutth 4y ago
An infantilized workforce is a weak, controllable, unthreatening, cheap workforce.