8 ms·

USB knob box doubles as a Blackmagic Designs camera remote

99 points by zdw 4y ago

noodlesUK 4y ago
I love these sorts of little projects. I don't know else who is likely to use something like this other than a really serious podcaster or vlogger, but clearly the writer has a need for it. It's also a great reminder of the versatility of the cheap microcontrollers we are able to use these days. It's pretty straightforward to use one to make just about any kind of input device you might want, and with wireless microcontrollers like the ESP32, you can even give it wifi! I use a variety of ESPs around the house with ESPhome for home assistant, doing all sorts of things. It's pretty easy to get into (home use level, not production electronics) embedded just by reading some datasheets and writing a little code these days.
- dylan604 4y ago
  If you ever shop for professional video devices, you'll know exactly why people are DIY'ing this kind of stuff. When you're on set on a "real" shoot, every mistake is expensive, so the gear is priced to reflect how "solid" it is. For those on a lower budget but want the same look/features, the microcontroller world has been a gawd send. I've built so many little motion controllers, lens controllers, ultrasonic digital tape, etc types of things that I'd never purchase the "legit" models. I tried building an auto-focus for manual cinema lens with the ultrasonic sensor telling range, a motor on the focus ring, and a whole lot of patience. I would never ever bring that onto a real set, but it was an interesting couple of weekends worth of learning.
- cjsawyer 4y ago
  I’ve built something very similar. It uses an Arduino Pro Micro and the HID library. It uses a large knob as a scroll wheel. Now I’m so used to it that scrolling without my extra off-hand device feels awkward and slow. Easily my most useful project
  - tlb 4y ago
    A writeup would probably be well-received here
gizajob 4y ago
Biker Glen could fairly trivially get a job at Blackmagic if he's doing this kind of thing for fun. Should send them a CV, and a hyperlink.
- dylan604 4y ago
  I absolutely love BMD for putting these features/capabilities into their cameras just knowing that people will do things precisely like this. They are the company that I feel like positively disrupted their industry without breaking laws and what not like others have done.
  - mschuster91 4y ago
    BMD has made production-grade video equipment affordable to the masses. They're kind of the Behringer of the video world, with the difference obviously being that BMD doesn't knock off designs from others and uses high quality components. Only gripe I have with BMD is that you need a separate piece of utility software for each and every component and it's not entirely obvious if there are firmware updates for a specific device available.
    - Joeboy 4y ago
      I like them too but my gripe is they claim BRAW is an "open and license-free standard" when (as far as I can tell) it's undocumented, supported only via closed binary blobs and distributed under a very non-free license.
      - AussieWog93 4y ago
        I actually worked on some of the obfuscation for the SDK back when I worked there. :) The goal wasn't to promote software freedom but to ensure that anyone could simply download the DLLs and use it in their software without needing to sign an NDA, beg for permission or deal with patent bullshit. The reality is that there is millions of dollars of R&D in the source code for this (primarily through stuff like camera calibration data, but also the maths in n the background) that they don't want ripped off by competitors.
rx_tx 4y ago
This was a a nice read, really detailed. I especially liked that he had the MCU talk directly to the camera with S.BUS (a weird uart with 2 stop bits for the control interface) despite the issues he encountered, instead of going the slightly easier but less elegant route of having a separate computer in the loop to do the HID <> S.Bus translation.
keepquestioning 4y ago
I can't believe OSH Park is still going after all these years.
- buildbot 4y ago
  They've expanded to laser cutting and stencils too, which are awesome. Purple PCBs forever!
jsmith45 4y ago
>I have a Blackmagic Designs Micro Studio Camera I wanted to use as a webcam for video conferences. Even with a 16mm sensor, it has better quality than any small sensor webcam I would certainly hope that with interchangeable lenses and a ~$1.2k pricetag that it would beat out basically any webcam.
- twobitshifter 4y ago
  Speaking of lenses, the one shown seems wrong for use as a webcam. Wouldn’t a prime lens with a short focal length be what you’d want? Its a cool project but it makes me wonder what the use of the zoom and adjustment to focus is in the end. If you’re sitting in front of your computer at approximately the same distance, there won’t be a need to adjust anything.
  - dylan604 4y ago
    I’m seeing a 12mm-35mm. That’s pretty damn short at 12mm. And wider, and you’re close to fisheye. That could be fun for Zoom calls especially if you rock back and forth the whole time to play with that distortion.
    - EVdotIO 4y ago
      The viewing angle with a 12mm focal length on a blackmagic s16 sensor is probably closer to a 24mm lens, maybe even more, on a full frame sensor.
b20000 4y ago
cost of the sony controller $1000 cost of the diy project taking into account hours spent $50,000
- sbarre 4y ago
  Learning all the things and making it yourself: priceless.
ur-whale 4y ago
Reminds me of these: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dial_box https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dial_box 90's era Silcon Graphics workstations came with them, they were great.
- teddyh 4y ago
  Before that: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paddle_(game_controller) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paddle_(game_controller)
ultrahax 4y ago
I've had good luck with cheap midi mixers for a-bunch-of-usb-connected-rotary-encoded-knobs like the Behringer X-Touch Mini https://www.behringer.com/product.html?modelCode=P0B3M https://www.behringer.com/product.html?modelCode=P0B3M - works on pretty much any kernel with audio modules.
- lostapathy 4y ago
  Using what software to make it useful?
  - ultrahax 4y ago
    https://twitter.com/ultrahax/status/1200902654882242562?s=20&t=uQEABbIrmZBehk3G-eqE9g https://twitter.com/ultrahax/status/1200902654882242562?s=20... It's some python on a GL-AR750S-Ext https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07GBXMBQF/ https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07GBXMBQF/ so I can turn a knob and manipulate latency, jitter, packet loss etc. to traffic going through it. You can read knob state ( and write back LED state ) straight from /proc
cpgxiii 4y ago
The Blackmagic Micro Studio Camera from the article makes a really great little machine vision camera. Compared to _anything_ available from a traditional machine vision vendor that will take controllable lenses, it's way cheaper and smaller. All of the equivalents generally take EF-mount lenses, while the BMD micro cameras take fairly cheap Micro 4/3rds lenses. SDI, while requiring slightly special hardware on the computer end, offers great bandwidth and extremely long cable lengths if you use fairly cheap fiber adapters and is vastly more reliable than USB cameras. Only real complaint I have is that there's no feedback on lens configuration (zoom position, aperture, focus position, etc) in the SDI output. It could totally be encoded in the VANC data of the output video frames (the same way commands are sent via SDI to the camera).
- jollyllama 4y ago
  I was thinking, looking through the post, that it'd be interesting to try to train a learner on the parameters of the camera control system. When you say "machine vision camera", are you talking about an industrial application, robotics, or something else?
  - cpgxiii 4y ago
    I use them for robotics work, but they'd be usable for industrial tasks as well. Significant outdoor use requires enclosures, but that's true for any of the cameras that aren't already IP67 rated (and not a lot of those have controllable lenses).
immmmmm 4y ago
Very neat! unfortunate it doesn't use LANC, i would have built one for my BMPCC original.

99 points by zdw 4y ago

I love these sorts of little projects. I don't know else who is likely to use something like this other than a really serious podcaster or vlogger, but clearly the writer has a need for it. It's also a great reminder of the versatility of the cheap microcontrollers we are able to use these days. It's pretty straightforward to use one to make just about any kind of input device you might want, and with wireless microcontrollers like the ESP32, you can even give it wifi! I use a variety of ESPs around the house with ESPhome for home assistant, doing all sorts of things. It's pretty easy to get into (home use level, not production electronics) embedded just by reading some datasheets and writing a little code these days.

dylan604 4y ago
If you ever shop for professional video devices, you'll know exactly why people are DIY'ing this kind of stuff. When you're on set on a "real" shoot, every mistake is expensive, so the gear is priced to reflect how "solid" it is. For those on a lower budget but want the same look/features, the microcontroller world has been a gawd send. I've built so many little motion controllers, lens controllers, ultrasonic digital tape, etc types of things that I'd never purchase the "legit" models. I tried building an auto-focus for manual cinema lens with the ultrasonic sensor telling range, a motor on the focus ring, and a whole lot of patience. I would never ever bring that onto a real set, but it was an interesting couple of weekends worth of learning.
cjsawyer 4y ago
I’ve built something very similar. It uses an Arduino Pro Micro and the HID library. It uses a large knob as a scroll wheel. Now I’m so used to it that scrolling without my extra off-hand device feels awkward and slow. Easily my most useful project
- tlb 4y ago
  A writeup would probably be well-received here

gizajob 4y ago

Biker Glen could fairly trivially get a job at Blackmagic if he's doing this kind of thing for fun. Should send them a CV, and a hyperlink.

dylan604 4y ago
I absolutely love BMD for putting these features/capabilities into their cameras just knowing that people will do things precisely like this. They are the company that I feel like positively disrupted their industry without breaking laws and what not like others have done.
- mschuster91 4y ago
  BMD has made production-grade video equipment affordable to the masses. They're kind of the Behringer of the video world, with the difference obviously being that BMD doesn't knock off designs from others and uses high quality components. Only gripe I have with BMD is that you need a separate piece of utility software for each and every component and it's not entirely obvious if there are firmware updates for a specific device available.
  - Joeboy 4y ago
    I like them too but my gripe is they claim BRAW is an "open and license-free standard" when (as far as I can tell) it's undocumented, supported only via closed binary blobs and distributed under a very non-free license.
    - AussieWog93 4y ago
      I actually worked on some of the obfuscation for the SDK back when I worked there. :) The goal wasn't to promote software freedom but to ensure that anyone could simply download the DLLs and use it in their software without needing to sign an NDA, beg for permission or deal with patent bullshit. The reality is that there is millions of dollars of R&D in the source code for this (primarily through stuff like camera calibration data, but also the maths in n the background) that they don't want ripped off by competitors.

rx_tx 4y ago

This was a a nice read, really detailed. I especially liked that he had the MCU talk directly to the camera with S.BUS (a weird uart with 2 stop bits for the control interface) despite the issues he encountered, instead of going the slightly easier but less elegant route of having a separate computer in the loop to do the HID <> S.Bus translation.

keepquestioning 4y ago

I can't believe OSH Park is still going after all these years.

buildbot 4y ago
They've expanded to laser cutting and stencils too, which are awesome. Purple PCBs forever!

jsmith45 4y ago

>I have a Blackmagic Designs Micro Studio Camera I wanted to use as a webcam for video conferences. Even with a 16mm sensor, it has better quality than any small sensor webcam I would certainly hope that with interchangeable lenses and a ~$1.2k pricetag that it would beat out basically any webcam.

twobitshifter 4y ago
Speaking of lenses, the one shown seems wrong for use as a webcam. Wouldn’t a prime lens with a short focal length be what you’d want? Its a cool project but it makes me wonder what the use of the zoom and adjustment to focus is in the end. If you’re sitting in front of your computer at approximately the same distance, there won’t be a need to adjust anything.
- dylan604 4y ago
  I’m seeing a 12mm-35mm. That’s pretty damn short at 12mm. And wider, and you’re close to fisheye. That could be fun for Zoom calls especially if you rock back and forth the whole time to play with that distortion.
  - EVdotIO 4y ago
    The viewing angle with a 12mm focal length on a blackmagic s16 sensor is probably closer to a 24mm lens, maybe even more, on a full frame sensor.

b20000 4y ago

cost of the sony controller $1000 cost of the diy project taking into account hours spent $50,000

sbarre 4y ago
Learning all the things and making it yourself: priceless.

ur-whale 4y ago

Reminds me of these: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dial_box https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dial_box 90's era Silcon Graphics workstations came with them, they were great.

teddyh 4y ago
Before that: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paddle_(game_controller) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paddle_(game_controller)

ultrahax 4y ago

I've had good luck with cheap midi mixers for a-bunch-of-usb-connected-rotary-encoded-knobs like the Behringer X-Touch Mini https://www.behringer.com/product.html?modelCode=P0B3M https://www.behringer.com/product.html?modelCode=P0B3M - works on pretty much any kernel with audio modules.

lostapathy 4y ago
Using what software to make it useful?
- ultrahax 4y ago
  https://twitter.com/ultrahax/status/1200902654882242562?s=20&t=uQEABbIrmZBehk3G-eqE9g https://twitter.com/ultrahax/status/1200902654882242562?s=20... It's some python on a GL-AR750S-Ext https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07GBXMBQF/ https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07GBXMBQF/ so I can turn a knob and manipulate latency, jitter, packet loss etc. to traffic going through it. You can read knob state ( and write back LED state ) straight from /proc

cpgxiii 4y ago

The Blackmagic Micro Studio Camera from the article makes a really great little machine vision camera. Compared to _anything_ available from a traditional machine vision vendor that will take controllable lenses, it's way cheaper and smaller. All of the equivalents generally take EF-mount lenses, while the BMD micro cameras take fairly cheap Micro 4/3rds lenses. SDI, while requiring slightly special hardware on the computer end, offers great bandwidth and extremely long cable lengths if you use fairly cheap fiber adapters and is vastly more reliable than USB cameras. Only real complaint I have is that there's no feedback on lens configuration (zoom position, aperture, focus position, etc) in the SDI output. It could totally be encoded in the VANC data of the output video frames (the same way commands are sent via SDI to the camera).

jollyllama 4y ago
I was thinking, looking through the post, that it'd be interesting to try to train a learner on the parameters of the camera control system. When you say "machine vision camera", are you talking about an industrial application, robotics, or something else?
- cpgxiii 4y ago
  I use them for robotics work, but they'd be usable for industrial tasks as well. Significant outdoor use requires enclosures, but that's true for any of the cameras that aren't already IP67 rated (and not a lot of those have controllable lenses).

immmmmm 4y ago

Very neat! unfortunate it doesn't use LANC, i would have built one for my BMPCC original.