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Author here, thanks for your comment, I thought it was really thoughtful and well structured. I don't think the rambling itself is a problem. It will inevitabl

Author here, thanks for your comment, I thought it was really thoughtful and well structured. I don't think the rambling itself is a problem. It will inevitably happen sometimes, and that's fine. It's part of making everyone feel safe. What I'm advocating for in this post is that we shouldn't create structures or formats which actively encourage rambling that does not add to the discussion. Furthermore, if those structures are inefficient (i.e. encourage rambling) and instil fear, you won't have 10 minutes of engagement with others, you'll probably have something like 30 minutes of unproductive technical discussion, which will cause the whole team to stop believing in the stand-up's purpose. That's not to say I disagree with you. I do agree we must find a balance, and that's why I add a few caveats to each of the recommendations, it's just that some practices are more prone to lead to inefficient meetings than others. Thanks again for chiming in with such a detailed and thoughtful piece of feedback.

bigiain 4y ago
FWIW, I mostly agree with your article, but I did find myself rolling my eyes a little when you started out reminding us of the origins of "Agile" and its principles, and criticising the rigid frameworks and practices it's metastasised into, but then the first piece of advice about how to "do it better" is to assume a Kanban board... For me, the "What did you do yesterday? What do you plan to do today? Is there anything blocking you?" questions work pretty well, with the expectation than nobody spends more than about 90 seconds answering all three. (This might just be because places I've recently worked haven't had well groomed or curated Kanban boards, but have had a mid and senior-heavy dev demographic?)
ggm 4y ago
Another side of this is that I hate Jira, which is the kanban I am directed by work to use, so 'talk to the kanban' doesn't work for me personally. I do know highly effective PMs who are living it, and it works for them. I truly believe to do what you propose, you probably have to be a high functional unit workwise. If you are, and you know you are, your suggestions are a laudable goal.

bigiain 4y ago

FWIW, I mostly agree with your article, but I did find myself rolling my eyes a little when you started out reminding us of the origins of "Agile" and its principles, and criticising the rigid frameworks and practices it's metastasised into, but then the first piece of advice about how to "do it better" is to assume a Kanban board... For me, the "What did you do yesterday? What do you plan to do today? Is there anything blocking you?" questions work pretty well, with the expectation than nobody spends more than about 90 seconds answering all three. (This might just be because places I've recently worked haven't had well groomed or curated Kanban boards, but have had a mid and senior-heavy dev demographic?)

ggm 4y ago

Another side of this is that I hate Jira, which is the kanban I am directed by work to use, so 'talk to the kanban' doesn't work for me personally. I do know highly effective PMs who are living it, and it works for them. I truly believe to do what you propose, you probably have to be a high functional unit workwise. If you are, and you know you are, your suggestions are a laudable goal.