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Everybody agrees Jaynes was wrong. I asked a classical-greek scholar about his linguistic observations. He read the book, and then said there was no pattern su
by ncmncm 4y ago
Everybody agrees Jaynes was wrong.
I asked a classical-greek scholar about his linguistic observations. He read the book, and then said there was no pattern such as Jaynes had perceived. The perception was probably a product of confirmation bias.
But the questions Jaynes raised have not been answered. So, the book is still worth talking about.
(BTW, I could not see a way to get the text of the paper. Sci-hub was no help. Clue?)
- bookofjoe 4y agohttps://web.archive.org/web/20200607225553/https://www.functionalneurology.com/materiale_cic/224_XXII_1/2108_the%20bicamiral/ https://web.archive.org/web/20200607225553/https://www.funct...
- kordlessagain 4y agoJaynes asserted a global recession of audio consciousness generating voices over time. If you experience aphantasia and are reading this, your visual consciousness state (a retraction of creating in mind visual objects) may be related to a mind devoid of echoic recall (a retraction of in mind audio objects). Today this is estimated to be nearly 60% of sampled individuals for audio and <2% for images.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- throwaway81523 4y agoWhat do you mean about echoic recall? Do you mean 60% of sampled individuals can't remember sounds that they hear, or imaginging them? That sounds unbelievable to me: people can remember songs and voices. If you ask someone to imagine Donald Trump's voice saying "I like dealing with the Ferengi--they are sharp traders", they can probably do it, even without Trump having to ever actually have said that.
- varjag 4y agoI can remember songs just fine, and certainly can mimic voices aloud but I struggle replaying someone's voice mentally.
- kordlessagain 4y agoThis is the same reaction people have when I say I can't see loved ones, in mind. Or an apple. I haven't found anyone with absolute Aphantasia (no images, ever) that can hear things in mind as well. That would include voices or songs. And yes, echoic recall is the ability to "re-hear" something in mind. There was a study in the 1800s that first explored this. That 40% of people hear things in mind came from that, as well as subsequent studies recently talking about Aphantasia exploring and measuring the prevalence in the population.
- throwaway81523 4y agoI know that aphantasia exists (I know a famous mathematician who has it) but I had expected it to be fairly uncommon, like color blindness. Soo I was surprised by the percentages mentioned.
- kordlessagain 4y agoThere are many of us on here. It takes a certain type of query to find us.
- alzyx 4y agohttps://docplayer.net/docview/70/62469444/#file=/storage/70/62469444/62469444.pdf https://docplayer.net/docview/70/62469444/#file=/storage/70/...