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Being raped, assaulted or having a family member murdered is worse than losing money. Money can be repaid. You can't be unraped.

sadhorse 4y ago
What about death as a result of money stolen from public health?
wpietri 4y ago
You write that in a tone of contradiction, but I don't see what in my comment contradicts that.
themitigating 4y ago
Rape and murder are extreme crimes and of course no financial loss is equal to them but there are other violent crimes that have less of an impact compared to losing money. You might be thinking about someone stealing a person's TV but what about their life savings. What about a corporation that goes bankrupt because of financial misdeeds and people lose their jobs? My dad lost his job in the mid 90s and the effects on my family involved massive stress for years. Financial concerns/economy seems to be the most important issue to voters in almost every election ever. It's the 5th highest reason for divorce at 36% (https://www.insider.com/why-people-get-divorced-2019-1 https://www.insider.com/why-people-get-divorced-2019-1) It can also can result in physical issues. Maybe you can't afford healthy food, maybe you can't afford health care due to financial loss. I couldn't find statistics but I can't imagine that in cases of theft being repaid 100% or even 50% of your loss occurs that frequency (but no source so..) In other words some financial crimes are worse than violent crimes.
- wpietri 4y ago
  I agree with your conclusion. Google News has correctly decided I'm interested in Ponzi schemes, so it shows me articles at least weekly about newly discovered large ones. A very common element is people retired or on their way who have lost everything. I'd much rather get a punch in the snoot than to spend years slowly dying of stress, poor nutrition, and patchy medical care.
telchior 4y ago
Are those the only crimes that involve jail time you can think of? We spent half a century sending people to jail for years or decades for possessing a bit of marijuana. You can be sent to jail for non-payment of speeding fines, or fishing at the wrong time of year. Or peacefully protesting government policies.
JumpCrisscross 4y ago
> Being raped, assaulted or having a family member murdered is worse than losing money Violent and financial/corruption crimes are in categories to themselves. The former for obvious reasons. The latter, because they corrode the institutions that make civilization work. Let financial crime--specifically corruption--run rampant and you'll lose more lives to riots, civil war or worse than to murder. It's no secret that car factories in peacetime make good tanks in war. Also, in peacetime, they employ many voters and their families. Ghosn was an immensely powerful man. He used his influence for personal enrichment. Enrichment his family collaborated to defend. Kings' courtiers had strict punishments for disloyalty for a reason. Much of that was personal. But some tied to the integrity of the state. We cannot excuse multimillionaires from running from the law while claiming to have a just society just because they had good PR. Ghosn, and his family [1], must be held accountable. [1] his son, Anthony Ghosn, facilitated the escape [a] as did his daughter, Maya Ghosn, who is profiled in the article [a] https://www.reuters.com/article/us-nissan-ghosn-taylor-bail-idUSKCN24O2I6 https://www.reuters.com/article/us-nissan-ghosn-taylor-bail-...
throwawaylinux 4y ago
Well if you're going to go to the extreme, how about treason? Let's say you sell military secrets to an enemy that results in nuclear destruction of your country and deaths of millions of people. The act of exchanging that secret for money was nothing more than moving some bits around on the internet, certainly non violent itself. Would you retain this strange protection from responsibility for consequences of your action in this case as well?
josefx 4y ago
Money often represents opportunity, sometimes its lack can cause significant distress. Say you want to go on vacation but find that all your bank accounts are in the red, you are not going to make that vacation, instead you are probably going to spend significant amounts of time trying to fix the resulting issues. Someone dropping by years later with a few million in hand isn't going to give you those years of your life back.

sadhorse 4y ago

What about death as a result of money stolen from public health?

wpietri 4y ago

You write that in a tone of contradiction, but I don't see what in my comment contradicts that.

themitigating 4y ago

Rape and murder are extreme crimes and of course no financial loss is equal to them but there are other violent crimes that have less of an impact compared to losing money. You might be thinking about someone stealing a person's TV but what about their life savings. What about a corporation that goes bankrupt because of financial misdeeds and people lose their jobs? My dad lost his job in the mid 90s and the effects on my family involved massive stress for years. Financial concerns/economy seems to be the most important issue to voters in almost every election ever. It's the 5th highest reason for divorce at 36% (https://www.insider.com/why-people-get-divorced-2019-1 https://www.insider.com/why-people-get-divorced-2019-1) It can also can result in physical issues. Maybe you can't afford healthy food, maybe you can't afford health care due to financial loss. I couldn't find statistics but I can't imagine that in cases of theft being repaid 100% or even 50% of your loss occurs that frequency (but no source so..) In other words some financial crimes are worse than violent crimes.

wpietri 4y ago
I agree with your conclusion. Google News has correctly decided I'm interested in Ponzi schemes, so it shows me articles at least weekly about newly discovered large ones. A very common element is people retired or on their way who have lost everything. I'd much rather get a punch in the snoot than to spend years slowly dying of stress, poor nutrition, and patchy medical care.

telchior 4y ago

Are those the only crimes that involve jail time you can think of? We spent half a century sending people to jail for years or decades for possessing a bit of marijuana. You can be sent to jail for non-payment of speeding fines, or fishing at the wrong time of year. Or peacefully protesting government policies.

JumpCrisscross 4y ago

> Being raped, assaulted or having a family member murdered is worse than losing money Violent and financial/corruption crimes are in categories to themselves. The former for obvious reasons. The latter, because they corrode the institutions that make civilization work. Let financial crime--specifically corruption--run rampant and you'll lose more lives to riots, civil war or worse than to murder. It's no secret that car factories in peacetime make good tanks in war. Also, in peacetime, they employ many voters and their families. Ghosn was an immensely powerful man. He used his influence for personal enrichment. Enrichment his family collaborated to defend. Kings' courtiers had strict punishments for disloyalty for a reason. Much of that was personal. But some tied to the integrity of the state. We cannot excuse multimillionaires from running from the law while claiming to have a just society just because they had good PR. Ghosn, and his family [1], must be held accountable. [1] his son, Anthony Ghosn, facilitated the escape [a] as did his daughter, Maya Ghosn, who is profiled in the article [a] https://www.reuters.com/article/us-nissan-ghosn-taylor-bail-idUSKCN24O2I6 https://www.reuters.com/article/us-nissan-ghosn-taylor-bail-...

throwawaylinux 4y ago

Well if you're going to go to the extreme, how about treason? Let's say you sell military secrets to an enemy that results in nuclear destruction of your country and deaths of millions of people. The act of exchanging that secret for money was nothing more than moving some bits around on the internet, certainly non violent itself. Would you retain this strange protection from responsibility for consequences of your action in this case as well?

josefx 4y ago

Money often represents opportunity, sometimes its lack can cause significant distress. Say you want to go on vacation but find that all your bank accounts are in the red, you are not going to make that vacation, instead you are probably going to spend significant amounts of time trying to fix the resulting issues. Someone dropping by years later with a few million in hand isn't going to give you those years of your life back.