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Kvochur was born in the Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic, Russian by ethnicity, and Soviet and now Russian by nationality. And he is a Russian test pilot who

by gdy 4y ago

Kvochur was born in the Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic, Russian by ethnicity, and Soviet and now Russian by nationality. And he is a Russian test pilot who has worked for Sukhoi and MIG. [0] https://warheroes.ru/hero/hero.asp?Hero_id=4276 https://warheroes.ru/hero/hero.asp?Hero_id=4276

parineum 4y ago
I get that we all don't like Russia because of the war but this propensity to try and remove the attribution of anything remotely positive from them is incredibly annoying.
- gdy 4y ago
  Well, even long before the war I saw how on the BBC World News three British journalists talked about British astronaut flying to the ISS without even once mentioning that he got there on the Russian rocket. They mentioned Kazakhstan though and showed the rocket flying up.
  - trasz 4y ago
    Before which war? Because while it took the genocide in Ukraine for the world to realise Russians become literal nazis, it's been Russian modus operandi for quite a while now. Also, see how you just called it a "Russian rocket" despite the fact that things like guidance were Ukrainian? It wasn't Russian - it was Soviet, from back when USSR consisted of a number of republics, including Russia and Ukraine.
    - parineum 4y ago
      It's not "technically correct" but I don't think it's far from the truth to think of the USSR as Russia and the land they annexed. Plus, was it "Ukranian" or was it built by Russians with Russian money on the order of Russians in Ukraine? Like, were Americans killed by Jewish bullets in WW2 because it was Jews in the Nazi factories?
      - trasz 4y ago
        >It's not "technically correct" but I don't think it's far from the truth to think of the USSR as Russia and the land they annexed. Not land - countries. Differently from, say, British colonialism, you can’t claim with a straight face that Russia brought with it the technology or culture. In fact it was pretty much the opposite. >Plus, was it "Ukranian" or was it built by Russians with Russian money on the order of Russians in Ukraine? It was Ukrainian, that’s the point: the brains part came from Ukraine, not Russia.
        gdy 4y ago
        "the brains part came from Ukraine" The brains that developed it worked in Moscow in the 80s[0]. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurs_(docking_navigation_system) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurs_(docking_navigation_syste...
        trasz 4y ago
        But the brains that made it work were in Kyiv. It took Russia over ten years (and probably tons of imported electronics) to replace it.
        gdy 4y ago
        I don't see what point you are trying to make. Russia has almost completely replaced obsolete Soviet electronics of both Soyuz spacecraft and Soyuz rocket with modern tech. http://www.russianspaceweb.com/soyuz2-1a.html http://www.russianspaceweb.com/soyuz2-1a.html http://www.russianspaceweb.com/soyuz-ms.html http://www.russianspaceweb.com/soyuz-ms.html
        trasz 4y ago
        Given that Russia can’t even manufacture ordinary cars (or phones, or computers…), I’m not convinced about this “modern” replacement. They probably just figured how to replace custom technology with COTS stuff bought from the West. Especially given Russian fakes like the Sputnik vaccine (“clinical tests” were made up), or their hypersonics (which are just a plane-launched ballistic missiles), or drones.
    - gdy 4y ago
      Yeah, right, Russians are 'literal Nazis' but somehow even Reuters publishes picture captioned 'A local resident inspects a damaged van following a military strike' and it shows a thug with Swastika on his arm (pic. #4) [0]. If you use the word 'genocide' now, why didn't you use it when Ukrainian nationalists burned alive 42 pro-Russian Ukrainians [4]? 'it's been Russian modus operandi for quite a while now' I think this bold statement deserves to be elaborated. "things like guidance were Ukrainian" The only thing that was Ukrainian-built was the Kurs guidance system[2]. It was developed by the Research Institute of Precision Instruments (Moscow) before 1985 and manufactured by the Kiev Radio Factory[1]. In 2016 that Soviet analog system was replaced by modern Russian Kurs-NA[3]. [0] https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/battle-ukraines-east-rages-zelenskiy-vows-retake-territory-2022-06-07/ https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/battle-ukraines-east-ra... [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurs_(docking_navigation_system) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurs_(docking_navigation_syste... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soyuz_(spacecraft)#Soyuz_TMA-M_(2010%E2%80%932016) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soyuz_(spacecraft)#Soyuz_TMA-M... [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soyuz_(spacecraft)#Soyuz_MS_(since_2016) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soyuz_(spacecraft)#Soyuz_MS_(s... [4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Odesa_clashes#Trade_Unions_House_fire https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Odesa_clashes#Trade_Union...
      - trasz 4y ago
        >even Reuters publishes picture There are - or were - a few nazis in Ukraine, sure. But in case of Russians all of them are nazis, because that's their state ideology: to destroy a (clearly superior, if you look at the history, eg the achievements over the past two decades) Ukrainian nation. >If you use the word 'genocide' now, why didn't you use it when Ukrainian nationalists burned alive 42 pro-Russian Ukrainians Because the offenders turned out to be pro-Russian, and quite a few of the victims turned out to be Russian-sponsored operatives. Killing own people for propaganda purposes seems standard in Russia, see the Theatre crisis. And even if it hadn't turned out that way, there would be a fundamental difference between a random terrorist attack and a planned genocide.
        gdy 4y ago
        "(superior) Ukrainian nation" Speaking like a Nazi now, aren't you? Ukraine über alles, right?

by gdy 4y ago

parineum 4y ago

I get that we all don't like Russia because of the war but this propensity to try and remove the attribution of anything remotely positive from them is incredibly annoying.

gdy 4y ago
Well, even long before the war I saw how on the BBC World News three British journalists talked about British astronaut flying to the ISS without even once mentioning that he got there on the Russian rocket. They mentioned Kazakhstan though and showed the rocket flying up.
- trasz 4y ago
  Before which war? Because while it took the genocide in Ukraine for the world to realise Russians become literal nazis, it's been Russian modus operandi for quite a while now. Also, see how you just called it a "Russian rocket" despite the fact that things like guidance were Ukrainian? It wasn't Russian - it was Soviet, from back when USSR consisted of a number of republics, including Russia and Ukraine.
  - parineum 4y ago
    It's not "technically correct" but I don't think it's far from the truth to think of the USSR as Russia and the land they annexed. Plus, was it "Ukranian" or was it built by Russians with Russian money on the order of Russians in Ukraine? Like, were Americans killed by Jewish bullets in WW2 because it was Jews in the Nazi factories?
    - trasz 4y ago
      >It's not "technically correct" but I don't think it's far from the truth to think of the USSR as Russia and the land they annexed. Not land - countries. Differently from, say, British colonialism, you can’t claim with a straight face that Russia brought with it the technology or culture. In fact it was pretty much the opposite. >Plus, was it "Ukranian" or was it built by Russians with Russian money on the order of Russians in Ukraine? It was Ukrainian, that’s the point: the brains part came from Ukraine, not Russia.
      - gdy 4y ago
        "the brains part came from Ukraine" The brains that developed it worked in Moscow in the 80s[0]. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurs_(docking_navigation_system) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurs_(docking_navigation_syste...
        trasz 4y ago
        But the brains that made it work were in Kyiv. It took Russia over ten years (and probably tons of imported electronics) to replace it.
        gdy 4y ago
        I don't see what point you are trying to make. Russia has almost completely replaced obsolete Soviet electronics of both Soyuz spacecraft and Soyuz rocket with modern tech. http://www.russianspaceweb.com/soyuz2-1a.html http://www.russianspaceweb.com/soyuz2-1a.html http://www.russianspaceweb.com/soyuz-ms.html http://www.russianspaceweb.com/soyuz-ms.html
        trasz 4y ago
        Given that Russia can’t even manufacture ordinary cars (or phones, or computers…), I’m not convinced about this “modern” replacement. They probably just figured how to replace custom technology with COTS stuff bought from the West. Especially given Russian fakes like the Sputnik vaccine (“clinical tests” were made up), or their hypersonics (which are just a plane-launched ballistic missiles), or drones.
  - gdy 4y ago
    Yeah, right, Russians are 'literal Nazis' but somehow even Reuters publishes picture captioned 'A local resident inspects a damaged van following a military strike' and it shows a thug with Swastika on his arm (pic. #4) [0]. If you use the word 'genocide' now, why didn't you use it when Ukrainian nationalists burned alive 42 pro-Russian Ukrainians [4]? 'it's been Russian modus operandi for quite a while now' I think this bold statement deserves to be elaborated. "things like guidance were Ukrainian" The only thing that was Ukrainian-built was the Kurs guidance system[2]. It was developed by the Research Institute of Precision Instruments (Moscow) before 1985 and manufactured by the Kiev Radio Factory[1]. In 2016 that Soviet analog system was replaced by modern Russian Kurs-NA[3]. [0] https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/battle-ukraines-east-rages-zelenskiy-vows-retake-territory-2022-06-07/ https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/battle-ukraines-east-ra... [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurs_(docking_navigation_system) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurs_(docking_navigation_syste... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soyuz_(spacecraft)#Soyuz_TMA-M_(2010%E2%80%932016) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soyuz_(spacecraft)#Soyuz_TMA-M... [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soyuz_(spacecraft)#Soyuz_MS_(since_2016) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soyuz_(spacecraft)#Soyuz_MS_(s... [4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Odesa_clashes#Trade_Unions_House_fire https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Odesa_clashes#Trade_Union...
    - trasz 4y ago
      >even Reuters publishes picture There are - or were - a few nazis in Ukraine, sure. But in case of Russians all of them are nazis, because that's their state ideology: to destroy a (clearly superior, if you look at the history, eg the achievements over the past two decades) Ukrainian nation. >If you use the word 'genocide' now, why didn't you use it when Ukrainian nationalists burned alive 42 pro-Russian Ukrainians Because the offenders turned out to be pro-Russian, and quite a few of the victims turned out to be Russian-sponsored operatives. Killing own people for propaganda purposes seems standard in Russia, see the Theatre crisis. And even if it hadn't turned out that way, there would be a fundamental difference between a random terrorist attack and a planned genocide.
      - gdy 4y ago
        "(superior) Ukrainian nation" Speaking like a Nazi now, aren't you? Ukraine über alles, right?