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> it's not wrong to escape from prison. Uh, yes it is. Maybe if you’re imprisoned illegally (kidnapping or by kangaroo court) but in the general case—in a demo

> it's not wrong to escape from prison. Uh, yes it is. Maybe if you’re imprisoned illegally (kidnapping or by kangaroo court) but in the general case—in a democracy with actual courts, it’s wrong. You think the cartel bosses that escaped from Mexico’s prisons were not morally and ethically wrong on multiple levels? Just because there’s also some corruption in the gov? Or because the prisons aren’t great. That’s unreasonable

collegeburner 4y ago
meh it's the shit that got them in there that was wrong. it may give us the justification to hold them prisoner but they still aren't morally required to not escape. like it's up to the judge what sentence they get so how could that even be a moral obligation?
mrtksn 4y ago
I think the burden for imprisonment and compelling people to stay in prison is on the punishers. That should not be confused with the crimes being wrong, I'm talking about ones desire not to be imprisoned being a natural desire and acting on it not being wrong by itself.
jokowueu 4y ago
There are major issues with Japan's justice system though . I mean just reading the link on this thread made me sad Michael Taylor. Mr. Taylor pleaded guilty to aiding Mr. Ghosn’s escape and started a two-year sentence at Tokyo’s Fuchu Prison in the summer of 2021; he spends much of his day in solitary confinement.
- exhilaration 4y ago
  Just in case the folks reading this comment don't see what's so bad about solitary confinement: Prolonged solitary confinement amounts to psychological torture, says UN expert https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2020/02/united-states-prolonged-solitary-confinement-amounts-psychological-torture https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2020/02/united-state...
snovv_crash 4y ago
I think the argument here is that being in prison is a bad experience and wanting to escape is normal, natural human behaviour. As such, the onus is not on the prisoner to stay inside, but on the guards to keep them there. Escaping is, as such, not a crime in itself.
- SiempreViernes 4y ago
  Evading a punishment is pretty universally seen as a crime, not sure why you'd think otherwise.
  - iforgotpassword 4y ago
    Because it's a natural instinct to seek freedom. It's in human nature. Like, expecting a prisoner to keep sitting in their cell when suddenly all doors spring open is ridiculous.
    - throwoutway 4y ago
      Sure it’s a natural instinct, but society as a whole views it as ethically, morally, and legally “wrong”. We don’t allow individual’s selfish motives to rule society in other areas. Either way, the person I was responding to did not say it was a natural desire, they only said it was “not wrong”.
      - iforgotpassword 4y ago
        I guess there are different levels on which you can look at this. If a rapist escapes from prison I certainly don't celebrate that. I want him to get captured again as quickly as possible. But I do not think it should add anything to his sentence, at least not for the attempt itself. If he hurt anyone, broke/stole something on his way out that's a different issue.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
  - 4y ago
kwere 4y ago
japanese democracy has a lot of "clauses"

collegeburner 4y ago

meh it's the shit that got them in there that was wrong. it may give us the justification to hold them prisoner but they still aren't morally required to not escape. like it's up to the judge what sentence they get so how could that even be a moral obligation?

mrtksn 4y ago

I think the burden for imprisonment and compelling people to stay in prison is on the punishers. That should not be confused with the crimes being wrong, I'm talking about ones desire not to be imprisoned being a natural desire and acting on it not being wrong by itself.

jokowueu 4y ago

There are major issues with Japan's justice system though . I mean just reading the link on this thread made me sad Michael Taylor. Mr. Taylor pleaded guilty to aiding Mr. Ghosn’s escape and started a two-year sentence at Tokyo’s Fuchu Prison in the summer of 2021; he spends much of his day in solitary confinement.

exhilaration 4y ago
Just in case the folks reading this comment don't see what's so bad about solitary confinement: Prolonged solitary confinement amounts to psychological torture, says UN expert https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2020/02/united-states-prolonged-solitary-confinement-amounts-psychological-torture https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2020/02/united-state...

snovv_crash 4y ago

I think the argument here is that being in prison is a bad experience and wanting to escape is normal, natural human behaviour. As such, the onus is not on the prisoner to stay inside, but on the guards to keep them there. Escaping is, as such, not a crime in itself.

SiempreViernes 4y ago
Evading a punishment is pretty universally seen as a crime, not sure why you'd think otherwise.
- iforgotpassword 4y ago
  Because it's a natural instinct to seek freedom. It's in human nature. Like, expecting a prisoner to keep sitting in their cell when suddenly all doors spring open is ridiculous.
  - throwoutway 4y ago
    Sure it’s a natural instinct, but society as a whole views it as ethically, morally, and legally “wrong”. We don’t allow individual’s selfish motives to rule society in other areas. Either way, the person I was responding to did not say it was a natural desire, they only said it was “not wrong”.
    - iforgotpassword 4y ago
      I guess there are different levels on which you can look at this. If a rapist escapes from prison I certainly don't celebrate that. I want him to get captured again as quickly as possible. But I do not think it should add anything to his sentence, at least not for the attempt itself. If he hurt anyone, broke/stole something on his way out that's a different issue.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
- 4y ago

kwere 4y ago

japanese democracy has a lot of "clauses"