4 ms·

I knew an American working in the Netherlands without a permit. The company flew him home one weekend a month so he was technically on a 28 day business trip ev

by User23 4y ago

I knew an American working in the Netherlands without a permit. The company flew him home one weekend a month so he was technically on a 28 day business trip every month. They got him a fax machine and legally his office was his apartment in the USA.

yardie 4y ago
This might sound crazy, but why not get a proper visa to the Netherlands? Its not impossible to migrate Americans into Europe if you can show they are skilled. This does sound like short-term contract work where they didn't want to work through the channels (time constraints) so chose the most expensive way to do it.
- trh0awayman 4y ago
  Because in many European countries the company is forced to open an office there to employ someone, which can bind them to European regulations.
  - badpun 4y ago
    The guy can work through NL-based contracting company, which will sell his services to mother company in the US, in exchange for a modest fee (say 10% of the income). It's done all the time when companies are affraid of local labor laws - they outsource that risk and hassle for the 10% extra.
- tfigment 4y ago
  US taxes world income with some credit for foreign taxes paid. So if you don't have to pay taxes twice its easier and cheaper. Speaking from experience especially around investments.
  - devoutsalsa 4y ago
    My USA taxes are gonna suck this year because of crypto.
- vishnugupta 4y ago
  Tax? The highest tax rate there is something like 50%+.
t_mann 4y ago
My bets are that this arrangement would almost certainly be considered tax dodging if the Dutch authorities ever find out (and he didn't pay taxes there). I'm not a tax lawyer, much less a Dutch one, but I looked into similar things: the basic rule is that every country wants you to pay taxes there, and when in doubt you are usually taxable (which can easily mean that you're fully taxable on your global (!) income in more than one country - most developed countries have bilateral double taxation agreements to sort this out, but then you need to look into the specifics of said agreement - definitely something you should leave to a professional). If you spend more than half of the year in a country, you'll usually need a very good reason if you want to avoid being fully taxable there (in some countries it's a hard rule, some look at the circumstances). Just taking a two-day trip every month looks a lot like deliberately trying to dodge taxes - such things can easily lead to criminal charges.
mrandish 4y ago
That'll probably go okay but only as long as the relevant authorities don't discover it. Officially, almost all governments want to collect tax revenue from anyone working in their territory. But it's hard to catch remote-working contractor digital nomads who skirt the rules by using temporary business travel or visitor exceptions. Many people do it but it's important to remember you're taking a risk and plan accordingly. As more people do it, authorities will prioritize trying to catch them and get better at detection and enforcement. Don't assume you won't eventually get caught, instead assume you will get caught and be resilient to it. Set things up so it won't be catastrophic or too costly if you have to suddenly relocate with no notice and also keep plenty of cash set aside to pay fines/back taxes. They key is avoiding doing things that make you easier for authorities to spot - usually financial transactions, living and travel arrangements. Also, you need to avoid doing stuff that brings any official attention your way. It's obviously best to keep relocating to another country every four to eight weeks with no more than 90 days in any country in a year but that gets tiring for many and that's when they get overconfident and slip-up. To me, it sounds like your friend's approach wasn't very cautious. Keeping such a regular documented travel pattern and living in the same place long-term will look suspicious if your friend gets questioned by authorities, even for something completely unrelated like a loud party or traffic ticket. All it takes is one cop who's having a bad day making an extra phone call.
- User23 4y ago
  Yeah that’s probably why he got paid in a Swiss account. This was before the Patriot act. Obviously I assume he was following the advice of his financial professionals and reporting that income, but it could be the arrangement was hinky. The outfit was one of the many Philips adjacent spinoff/startups that are so common in the Low Countries, so it’s possible it was either legal or they had enough political capital to not worry about enforcement on the Dutch side of things?
yitchelle 4y ago
Does the border authorities question the high number of entries into the country?

by User23 4y ago

yardie 4y ago

This might sound crazy, but why not get a proper visa to the Netherlands? Its not impossible to migrate Americans into Europe if you can show they are skilled. This does sound like short-term contract work where they didn't want to work through the channels (time constraints) so chose the most expensive way to do it.

trh0awayman 4y ago
Because in many European countries the company is forced to open an office there to employ someone, which can bind them to European regulations.
- badpun 4y ago
  The guy can work through NL-based contracting company, which will sell his services to mother company in the US, in exchange for a modest fee (say 10% of the income). It's done all the time when companies are affraid of local labor laws - they outsource that risk and hassle for the 10% extra.
tfigment 4y ago
US taxes world income with some credit for foreign taxes paid. So if you don't have to pay taxes twice its easier and cheaper. Speaking from experience especially around investments.
- devoutsalsa 4y ago
  My USA taxes are gonna suck this year because of crypto.
vishnugupta 4y ago
Tax? The highest tax rate there is something like 50%+.

t_mann 4y ago

My bets are that this arrangement would almost certainly be considered tax dodging if the Dutch authorities ever find out (and he didn't pay taxes there). I'm not a tax lawyer, much less a Dutch one, but I looked into similar things: the basic rule is that every country wants you to pay taxes there, and when in doubt you are usually taxable (which can easily mean that you're fully taxable on your global (!) income in more than one country - most developed countries have bilateral double taxation agreements to sort this out, but then you need to look into the specifics of said agreement - definitely something you should leave to a professional). If you spend more than half of the year in a country, you'll usually need a very good reason if you want to avoid being fully taxable there (in some countries it's a hard rule, some look at the circumstances). Just taking a two-day trip every month looks a lot like deliberately trying to dodge taxes - such things can easily lead to criminal charges.

mrandish 4y ago

That'll probably go okay but only as long as the relevant authorities don't discover it. Officially, almost all governments want to collect tax revenue from anyone working in their territory. But it's hard to catch remote-working contractor digital nomads who skirt the rules by using temporary business travel or visitor exceptions. Many people do it but it's important to remember you're taking a risk and plan accordingly. As more people do it, authorities will prioritize trying to catch them and get better at detection and enforcement. Don't assume you won't eventually get caught, instead assume you will get caught and be resilient to it. Set things up so it won't be catastrophic or too costly if you have to suddenly relocate with no notice and also keep plenty of cash set aside to pay fines/back taxes. They key is avoiding doing things that make you easier for authorities to spot - usually financial transactions, living and travel arrangements. Also, you need to avoid doing stuff that brings any official attention your way. It's obviously best to keep relocating to another country every four to eight weeks with no more than 90 days in any country in a year but that gets tiring for many and that's when they get overconfident and slip-up. To me, it sounds like your friend's approach wasn't very cautious. Keeping such a regular documented travel pattern and living in the same place long-term will look suspicious if your friend gets questioned by authorities, even for something completely unrelated like a loud party or traffic ticket. All it takes is one cop who's having a bad day making an extra phone call.

User23 4y ago
Yeah that’s probably why he got paid in a Swiss account. This was before the Patriot act. Obviously I assume he was following the advice of his financial professionals and reporting that income, but it could be the arrangement was hinky. The outfit was one of the many Philips adjacent spinoff/startups that are so common in the Low Countries, so it’s possible it was either legal or they had enough political capital to not worry about enforcement on the Dutch side of things?

yitchelle 4y ago

Does the border authorities question the high number of entries into the country?