4 ms·

> According to the article, a total of 6.1 terawatt hours of electricity was lost in Germany in 2020 (the latest available figure) I don't think it makes sense

by brazzy 4y ago

> According to the article, a total of 6.1 terawatt hours of electricity was lost in Germany in 2020 (the latest available figure) I don't think it makes sense to count all of that as "lost", at least in the sense of framing it as mismanagement. If you want solar to supply a large part of a country's electricity, you have to overprovision to cover cloudy days, which automatically means that only a very sunny day, you'll produce more electricity than you can use, since large-scale storage is not yet feasible.

Archelaos 4y ago
If I understand it correctly, than it was "lost" not because there existed a general overprovision in ther European grid, but because the local grid was not able to accept and pass on what could theoretically be produced, meaning that somewhere else non-renuable energy resources were consumed instead. If this is correct, than I think it is jusified to speak of a "loss".
- brazzy 4y ago
  I think the number given (6.1 terawatt hours) is just the total of not-used solar electricity for any reason, and the reasons are probably not all that clearly delineated and distinguishable. Another factor is that coal and nuclear plants cannot be spun down just because you have an abundance of solar power for half a day. And that's not the fault of solar power, or the grid, or bad planning.
  - Archelaos 4y ago
    You are very probably right that many different reasons have contributed to the figure. To which percentage deficits in the grid structure are responsible I do not exactly know. But in any case, the topic plays a big role in the German mainstream media and politics. According to what I hear, the main problem is that the industrial energy consumers are predominantly located in the south of Germany, while the best locations for wind energy are at the coast in the north. This means that Germany needs a very different large-scale electricity grid for a renewable future. Past governments were rather tardy in planning,[1] so that upgrading the grid became the limiting factor for a rapid expansion of renewable energies. Something similar I could observe myself on a local scale in the region my parents live (also in the state of Bavaria, about 100 km away from the person who is mentioned in the Spiegel article). There, the limiting factor for the size of new solar parks was the capacity of the grid nodes in the vicinity. This is of course only anecdotal. [1] They first wanted to build "cheap" overhead power lines. After protests from the population along the planned routes, they changed their minds and decided in favour of underground cables and had to start planing again. Unfortunately, it took more than two years for them to change their minds. (And of course, it was not them that were responsible for the delay, but the evil protesters, generally long procedures and nonsensical appeal options.)
    - ErikCorry 4y ago
      It was Bavarian minister Aigner that in 2015 blocked/delayed the improved North-South connection. Environmental organizations opposed the connection completely despite the clear environmental benefits. https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suedlink#Wilster_%E2%80%93_Bergrheinfeld/West https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suedlink#Wilster_%E2%80%93_Ber... The whole Suedlink process has been a triumph of pseudo-environmental Nimbyism over the actual environment and now threatens the whole energy stability of Germany in the coming energy-crunch winter.

by brazzy 4y ago

Archelaos 4y ago

If I understand it correctly, than it was "lost" not because there existed a general overprovision in ther European grid, but because the local grid was not able to accept and pass on what could theoretically be produced, meaning that somewhere else non-renuable energy resources were consumed instead. If this is correct, than I think it is jusified to speak of a "loss".

brazzy 4y ago
I think the number given (6.1 terawatt hours) is just the total of not-used solar electricity for any reason, and the reasons are probably not all that clearly delineated and distinguishable. Another factor is that coal and nuclear plants cannot be spun down just because you have an abundance of solar power for half a day. And that's not the fault of solar power, or the grid, or bad planning.
- Archelaos 4y ago
  You are very probably right that many different reasons have contributed to the figure. To which percentage deficits in the grid structure are responsible I do not exactly know. But in any case, the topic plays a big role in the German mainstream media and politics. According to what I hear, the main problem is that the industrial energy consumers are predominantly located in the south of Germany, while the best locations for wind energy are at the coast in the north. This means that Germany needs a very different large-scale electricity grid for a renewable future. Past governments were rather tardy in planning,[1] so that upgrading the grid became the limiting factor for a rapid expansion of renewable energies. Something similar I could observe myself on a local scale in the region my parents live (also in the state of Bavaria, about 100 km away from the person who is mentioned in the Spiegel article). There, the limiting factor for the size of new solar parks was the capacity of the grid nodes in the vicinity. This is of course only anecdotal. [1] They first wanted to build "cheap" overhead power lines. After protests from the population along the planned routes, they changed their minds and decided in favour of underground cables and had to start planing again. Unfortunately, it took more than two years for them to change their minds. (And of course, it was not them that were responsible for the delay, but the evil protesters, generally long procedures and nonsensical appeal options.)
  - ErikCorry 4y ago
    It was Bavarian minister Aigner that in 2015 blocked/delayed the improved North-South connection. Environmental organizations opposed the connection completely despite the clear environmental benefits. https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suedlink#Wilster_%E2%80%93_Bergrheinfeld/West https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suedlink#Wilster_%E2%80%93_Ber... The whole Suedlink process has been a triumph of pseudo-environmental Nimbyism over the actual environment and now threatens the whole energy stability of Germany in the coming energy-crunch winter.