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There is a crucial difference between IC fabrication and almost everything else: we don’t even have the capability to fabricate at the most advanced nodes. On t
by Cyph0n 4y ago
There is a crucial difference between IC fabrication and almost everything else: we don’t even have the capability to fabricate at the most advanced nodes. On the other hand, we are capable of manufacturing everything else; we just need a bit of time to set things up and ramp up capacity.
If we don’t gain that capability now, it will take us too long to recover when push actually comes to shove.
- User23 4y agoI think the USA is just as capable of writing fat checks to ASML as Taiwan is.
- Cyph0n 4y agoThere’s a bit more to IC fabrication than lithography. Regardless, I’d go further and argue that we should be building up the capability to manufacture our own EUV lithography machines.
- User23 4y agoThe USA developed the technology, holds the patents, and licensed them to ASML. They basically are our machines. That’s why Trump was able to block the China deal.
- Cyph0n 4y agoUh.. what? Can you share a link? As far as I am aware, it’s the exact opposite: over the years, ASML licensed some of their patents to US companies.
- User23 4y agoIt’s surprisingly hard to craft a search query to get a nice link. Nevertheless, here[1] you can find a somewhat oblique reference. [1] https://asiatimes.com/2022/07/how-china-could-leapfrog-us-chip-making-bans/ https://asiatimes.com/2022/07/how-china-could-leapfrog-us-ch...
- Cyph0n 4y agoAh, I think that’s referring to some of the suppliers (and IP) ASML uses to build its machines, not the EUV tech itself. If you think about it, ASML wouldn’t be this critical to semiconductor fabrication if it didn’t control the patents for its core tech.
- ac29 4y ago> we don’t even have the capability to fabricate at the most advanced nodes. I'm not sure that's entirely true. If we define "most advanced nodes" as 5nm-class fabrication, certainly Intel is doing that well now, just not in volume production. Intel 4 based Meteor Lake powered on and runs Windows as of earlier this year. No capability to build and not ready for volume manufacturing aren't really the same class of problem.
- Cyph0n 4y agoSo Intel is 2 years behind volume production of 5nm by TSMC and Samsung. To me, that sounds like a significant delay in capability. Anyways, I think the CHIPS Act was the right move at the right time. SMIC is quickly catching up thanks to near unlimited funding from the Chinese government. We need to play the same game if we ever want to catch up to TSMC.