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> Most other western countries recognize that many crimes are also a result of circumstances and lack of opportunities. In the USA that’s simply not true. Ther

> Most other western countries recognize that many crimes are also a result of circumstances and lack of opportunities. In the USA that’s simply not true. There are boundless opportunities for every individual to take advantage of. There is a labor shortage at the moment. There are severe shortages of people that are craftsmen as well and tons of free training online. No one is desperate due to the circumstances created by the USA. They make the conscious choice to become a criminal. Criminals are not victims and the coddling, condescending attitudes to criminals is degrading to them if anything. They made the choice and should own it like you’d expect from any adult.

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virgildotcodes 4y ago
> No one is desperate due to the circumstances created by the USA. They make the conscious choice to become a criminal. Man, if any quote could be used to show how HN should not be taken seriously on any topic that strays outside of the strict definition of STEM-related, this could be a contender. I don't even know where to begin, but consider the fact that people are born into situations far more horrible than you may ever truly comprehend, where criminal acts and lifestyles are as normal to them as anything you would find normal to yourself growing up.
- nemo44x 4y ago
  > I don't even know where to begin Possibly because you don’t have a good point to make. Most people that grow up in bad places or situations don’t become criminals. Criminal acts may occur more frequently in certain places but the vast majority of people from those places do not become criminals. And what do you know about me growing up? I grew up around a lot of these types of “horrible situations” and most the kids turned out. Sone choose to commit crimes and sone died or were incarcerated because of those choices.
  - virgildotcodes 4y ago
    > Possibly because you don’t have a good point to make. Consider the other possibilities. If someone confidently told you that our flat Earth is 6,000 years old, where would you begin? There's a lot to unpack, and you're not even certain if all the work will be worth doing or just a waste of time. > Most people that grow up in bad places or situations don’t become criminals. Most people who smoke don't get lung cancer. So by your logic have we proven that smoking doesn't cause lung cancer? Poverty, in the US and globally, is correlated with higher crime rates. Isn't it such a strange coincidence that people who happen to be born into poverty also consistently happen to "choose" to commit more crimes, given that their environment has nothing to do with their choices? Shouldn't crime rates be equal across all socioeconomic classes? > I grew up around a lot of these types of “horrible situations” and most the kids turned out. Again, most people who do X don't end up Y is in no way a valid argument that X doesn't cause Y.
mehphp 4y ago
If that were true, wouldn’t crime rates be evenly distributed among income/circumstances? You don’t find it convincing that poorer/less-educated places tend to have higher crime rates? I’m not saying people aren’t culpable for their crimes, but surely it’s not as simple as people “consciously choosing” to become criminals.
- nemo44x 4y ago
  > If that were true, wouldn’t crime rates be evenly distributed among income/circumstances? Just because some people from lower income brackets choose to risk their livelihoods by doing crimes doesn’t mean there isn’t boundless opportunities. If a person would rather gangbang or sling meth instead of doing something productive then that’s their choice. There aren’t exactly a bunch of dudes desperate for cancer treatments they can’t afford so they turn to criminal enterprise to fund it. They choose the lifestyle.
  - mehphp 4y ago
    Again though, if that were the case (that it's simply a choice and opportunity has nothing to do with it), we should see the same rate of people choosing crime among affluent people. It's simply not true that people in lower income have the same opportunities. They don't have access to the same quality of education, people who care about their career prospects or the ability to afford higher education.
    - nemo44x 4y ago
      You’re changing the argument again. I never said the “same opportunities”. I simply said there are opportunities available in sufficient numbers that crime is no excuse. Poor people aren’t as stupid as you think. Most don’t turn to crime. To reverse your logic, affluent people should never commit crimes but yet sone do too. People make choices. I think this was once called the soft bigotry of low expectations. You are a bigot by your logic. Looking down on poor people is offensive.
      - 4y ago

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virgildotcodes 4y ago

> No one is desperate due to the circumstances created by the USA. They make the conscious choice to become a criminal. Man, if any quote could be used to show how HN should not be taken seriously on any topic that strays outside of the strict definition of STEM-related, this could be a contender. I don't even know where to begin, but consider the fact that people are born into situations far more horrible than you may ever truly comprehend, where criminal acts and lifestyles are as normal to them as anything you would find normal to yourself growing up.

nemo44x 4y ago
> I don't even know where to begin Possibly because you don’t have a good point to make. Most people that grow up in bad places or situations don’t become criminals. Criminal acts may occur more frequently in certain places but the vast majority of people from those places do not become criminals. And what do you know about me growing up? I grew up around a lot of these types of “horrible situations” and most the kids turned out. Sone choose to commit crimes and sone died or were incarcerated because of those choices.
- virgildotcodes 4y ago
  > Possibly because you don’t have a good point to make. Consider the other possibilities. If someone confidently told you that our flat Earth is 6,000 years old, where would you begin? There's a lot to unpack, and you're not even certain if all the work will be worth doing or just a waste of time. > Most people that grow up in bad places or situations don’t become criminals. Most people who smoke don't get lung cancer. So by your logic have we proven that smoking doesn't cause lung cancer? Poverty, in the US and globally, is correlated with higher crime rates. Isn't it such a strange coincidence that people who happen to be born into poverty also consistently happen to "choose" to commit more crimes, given that their environment has nothing to do with their choices? Shouldn't crime rates be equal across all socioeconomic classes? > I grew up around a lot of these types of “horrible situations” and most the kids turned out. Again, most people who do X don't end up Y is in no way a valid argument that X doesn't cause Y.

mehphp 4y ago

If that were true, wouldn’t crime rates be evenly distributed among income/circumstances? You don’t find it convincing that poorer/less-educated places tend to have higher crime rates? I’m not saying people aren’t culpable for their crimes, but surely it’s not as simple as people “consciously choosing” to become criminals.

nemo44x 4y ago
> If that were true, wouldn’t crime rates be evenly distributed among income/circumstances? Just because some people from lower income brackets choose to risk their livelihoods by doing crimes doesn’t mean there isn’t boundless opportunities. If a person would rather gangbang or sling meth instead of doing something productive then that’s their choice. There aren’t exactly a bunch of dudes desperate for cancer treatments they can’t afford so they turn to criminal enterprise to fund it. They choose the lifestyle.
- mehphp 4y ago
  Again though, if that were the case (that it's simply a choice and opportunity has nothing to do with it), we should see the same rate of people choosing crime among affluent people. It's simply not true that people in lower income have the same opportunities. They don't have access to the same quality of education, people who care about their career prospects or the ability to afford higher education.
  - nemo44x 4y ago
    You’re changing the argument again. I never said the “same opportunities”. I simply said there are opportunities available in sufficient numbers that crime is no excuse. Poor people aren’t as stupid as you think. Most don’t turn to crime. To reverse your logic, affluent people should never commit crimes but yet sone do too. People make choices. I think this was once called the soft bigotry of low expectations. You are a bigot by your logic. Looking down on poor people is offensive.
    - 4y ago