6 ms·

Bicycles really need dedicated infrastructure. Too fast for pedestrians on the sidewalk, too slow for most roads. (I know they are legally allowed on the road;

Bicycles really need dedicated infrastructure. Too fast for pedestrians on the sidewalk, too slow for most roads. (I know they are legally allowed on the road; in practice though, it doesn't work out very well.)

capableweb 4y ago
> (I know they are legally allowed on the road; in practice though, it doesn't work out very well.) Not just legally allowed, legally required to travel by road, just because it's not safe to travel with a vehicle together on the same place as pedestrians. Then that the US has a problem with focusing only on cars, is a separate issue.
- amrocha 4y ago
  It's absolutely safe for bikes to ride on same place as pedestrians: collisions are rare, and when they do happen they're not deadly. Is it annoying? Yeah maybe, but that's not a good enough reason to make them ride on alongside cars, which is actually dangerous.
  - wolfram74 4y ago
    And obviously bikes can operate at a range of speeds, if I feel like I need to go on the sidewalk for safety reasons and there's any other people I stick to a pace comparable to someone jogging.
    - bryanlarsen 4y ago
      If you want to take your bicycle on the sidewalk, you're welcome to walk your bike.
      - wolfram74 4y ago
        A mounted bicyclist at a walking pace has a lower cross section than a parent with a stroller or a person in a wheelchair. Sidewalks are multi-modal, until we can get rid of the scourge of cars, anybody opting not to use them should be encouraged as long they're being civil.
        bryanlarsen 4y ago
        Try testing that theory. If you walk your bike in a crowd, the crowd will pack in the space around you very efficiently. If you ride your bike at walking speed, the crowd will give you quite a wide buffer zone. You are less predictable, and most bikes at that low of a speed are very wobbly. Thus you talk less space walking your bike despite the wider cross section.
        amrocha 4y ago
        Nobody is riding their bike in a crowd mate
        bryanlarsen 4y ago
        Then the objection I'm replying to is also irrelevant.
        amrocha 4y ago
        It's not, bikes fit in sidewalks just fine
        jimmux 4y ago
        This isn't true in my experience. I have ridden through areas like this often, because for some reason my city put one of the main bicycle routes through a busy pedestrian tourist area, full of families and inebriated diners. If you dismount and push a bike, people get struck by pedals and handlebars. The rider has to allow much more space to prevent people walking right into them. Riding at walking speed, some pedestrians may give a bit of space, but most of them don't alter their movement in any appreciable way. A capable rider has better control of a bicycle when they are actually riding it, and can keep pedals away from shins even in close proximity.
    - amrocha 4y ago
      Yeah totally, that's how it works in Tokyo. Bikes are supposed to ride on the road, but if the road seems unsafe you can ride on the sidewalk. Even cops ride on the sidewalk here. That being said, ebikes are partially banned here. Pedal assist is fine but full ebikes count as motor vehicles. I think it's a decent compromise.
  - tialaramex 4y ago
    > It's absolutely safe for bikes to ride on same place as pedestrians: collisions are rare, and when they do happen they're not deadly. It's not deadly for the cyclist. https://www.itv.com/news/wales/2022-07-14/cyclist-who-rode-on-pavement-jailed-for-fatal-collision-with-pedestrian https://www.itv.com/news/wales/2022-07-14/cyclist-who-rode-o... Hey, driving a car into cyclists isn't deadly for the driver, so, under your logic that's not "actually dangerous" either? Right?
    - beefield 4y ago
      I'm not sure what your point was? https://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/people/cyclist-riding-electric-bike-dies-after-crash-with-pedestrian-in-yorkshire-3555656 https://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/people/cyclist-riding-e... To me it is quite obvious that pedestrian crashing with a bicycle is much less dangerous than pedestrian hit by a car.
    - amrocha 4y ago
      It's so safe that when a death happens it makes the news. When hundreds of people get killed by cars every year it doesn't even get picked up unless it was a kid. I'd even say it's probably more dangerous for the human on the bike if they get thrown off the bike in a weird way.
mrcartmeneses 4y ago
It depends on the local laws and street infrastructure. In London there are lots of cycling “Quietways” (which is basically marketing speak for a cycle route). These routes generally do not have many cycle lanes and are instead on small side streets that are often blocked to through traffic. Using these is a pleasure and it’s a great way of getting around.

capableweb 4y ago

> (I know they are legally allowed on the road; in practice though, it doesn't work out very well.) Not just legally allowed, legally required to travel by road, just because it's not safe to travel with a vehicle together on the same place as pedestrians. Then that the US has a problem with focusing only on cars, is a separate issue.

amrocha 4y ago
It's absolutely safe for bikes to ride on same place as pedestrians: collisions are rare, and when they do happen they're not deadly. Is it annoying? Yeah maybe, but that's not a good enough reason to make them ride on alongside cars, which is actually dangerous.
- wolfram74 4y ago
  And obviously bikes can operate at a range of speeds, if I feel like I need to go on the sidewalk for safety reasons and there's any other people I stick to a pace comparable to someone jogging.
  - bryanlarsen 4y ago
    If you want to take your bicycle on the sidewalk, you're welcome to walk your bike.
    - wolfram74 4y ago
      A mounted bicyclist at a walking pace has a lower cross section than a parent with a stroller or a person in a wheelchair. Sidewalks are multi-modal, until we can get rid of the scourge of cars, anybody opting not to use them should be encouraged as long they're being civil.
      - bryanlarsen 4y ago
        Try testing that theory. If you walk your bike in a crowd, the crowd will pack in the space around you very efficiently. If you ride your bike at walking speed, the crowd will give you quite a wide buffer zone. You are less predictable, and most bikes at that low of a speed are very wobbly. Thus you talk less space walking your bike despite the wider cross section.
        amrocha 4y ago
        Nobody is riding their bike in a crowd mate
        bryanlarsen 4y ago
        Then the objection I'm replying to is also irrelevant.
        amrocha 4y ago
        It's not, bikes fit in sidewalks just fine
        jimmux 4y ago
        This isn't true in my experience. I have ridden through areas like this often, because for some reason my city put one of the main bicycle routes through a busy pedestrian tourist area, full of families and inebriated diners. If you dismount and push a bike, people get struck by pedals and handlebars. The rider has to allow much more space to prevent people walking right into them. Riding at walking speed, some pedestrians may give a bit of space, but most of them don't alter their movement in any appreciable way. A capable rider has better control of a bicycle when they are actually riding it, and can keep pedals away from shins even in close proximity.
  - amrocha 4y ago
    Yeah totally, that's how it works in Tokyo. Bikes are supposed to ride on the road, but if the road seems unsafe you can ride on the sidewalk. Even cops ride on the sidewalk here. That being said, ebikes are partially banned here. Pedal assist is fine but full ebikes count as motor vehicles. I think it's a decent compromise.
- tialaramex 4y ago
  > It's absolutely safe for bikes to ride on same place as pedestrians: collisions are rare, and when they do happen they're not deadly. It's not deadly for the cyclist. https://www.itv.com/news/wales/2022-07-14/cyclist-who-rode-on-pavement-jailed-for-fatal-collision-with-pedestrian https://www.itv.com/news/wales/2022-07-14/cyclist-who-rode-o... Hey, driving a car into cyclists isn't deadly for the driver, so, under your logic that's not "actually dangerous" either? Right?
  - beefield 4y ago
    I'm not sure what your point was? https://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/people/cyclist-riding-electric-bike-dies-after-crash-with-pedestrian-in-yorkshire-3555656 https://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/people/cyclist-riding-e... To me it is quite obvious that pedestrian crashing with a bicycle is much less dangerous than pedestrian hit by a car.
  - amrocha 4y ago
    It's so safe that when a death happens it makes the news. When hundreds of people get killed by cars every year it doesn't even get picked up unless it was a kid. I'd even say it's probably more dangerous for the human on the bike if they get thrown off the bike in a weird way.

mrcartmeneses 4y ago

It depends on the local laws and street infrastructure. In London there are lots of cycling “Quietways” (which is basically marketing speak for a cycle route). These routes generally do not have many cycle lanes and are instead on small side streets that are often blocked to through traffic. Using these is a pleasure and it’s a great way of getting around.