4 ms·

Prevailing market rates, at or above minimum wage, sounds about right. Prisoners should be allowed to acquire and purchase necessities without markups with the

Prevailing market rates, at or above minimum wage, sounds about right. Prisoners should be allowed to acquire and purchase necessities without markups with their earnings. Prison facilities and services should be free.

okasaki 4y ago
There are people who work full time and after their monthly expenses are paid hardly have anything left over, but prisoners should just pocket it all?
- probably_wrong 4y ago
  Yes, they should "pocket it all". Without the opportunity to save _some_ money they are guaranteed to end up homeless (or worse) as soon as they leave the jail. Being "rich" in prison doesn't mean you get to improve your gaming rig or buy a Roomba, it just means you don't have to consider whether to spend $2 to see the doctor. I would be fine with that. Also, everything in prison is reported to be expensive, bad quality, and full of extra fees. So if they only have one expensive brand of toothpaste, they should at least earn enough to afford _those_ prices.
- Ekaros 4y ago
  The society choose to lock them up. And part of that contract is to pay for expenses. It is not prisoners problem, society could as well kick them out and then they would need to pay for those themselves.
  - okasaki 4y ago
    I'm not sure I find this argument convincing. Would you say that if I speed and get a fine, then society has chosen to fine me and so they should pay the fine?
    - monniez 4y ago
      You do not become a ward of the state when you receive a speeding ticket.
    - Ekaros 4y ago
      It is not like we charge people for time of the police when receiving speeding ticket. Or the paper it is written on.
- ldoughty 4y ago
  Do we want prison to be rehabilitation or a revolving door? If people leave with money, they can actually try to break the cycle... Perhaps try to keep some of their property/belongings for short incarcerations... Most Americans families would lose their house and/or car if one parent was in jail for 6 months... Which makes prison a family killer, encouraging more crime to continue from neglected children and single mom/dad now working 2-3 jobs to cost the gap
  - okasaki 4y ago
    Sure, that's probably all true. I'm just trying to contrast the reality of living outside of prison (a substantial amount of money goes to living expenses) to living in prison (you have or should have no expenses). To me if you pay prisoners a normal wage it would seem too much like a reward for breaking crime, given that we pay all their normal expenses as well.
    - monniez 4y ago
      Going to prison is no reward. No sane person would go to prison for the chance to earn minimum wage. Furthermore, as the article states, prison services are substandard or entirely missing. Either fix that and we can talk deductions above normal taxes or allow the prisoners to earn minimum wage or more and to keep their earnings.
      - JumpCrisscross 4y ago
        > No sane person would go to prison for the chance to earn minimum wage It's not minimum wage. It's minimum wage plus room and board plus shitty food and healthcare. Even for someone young and healthy, albeit uneducated, a few years in prison could yield a nest egg. For someone with a chronic health condition, getting sentenced could be the smart move. (This is true even today, depending on your city and state.) The price of prison labor, what companies and the government pay for it, should be no less than prevailing wages. Ideally, indexed to the county the prison is in. What the prisoner is paid out of that should deduct some amount, again ideally related to a local cost-of-living index, that goes into a rehabilitation fund.
- becquerel 4y ago
  yes.

okasaki 4y ago

There are people who work full time and after their monthly expenses are paid hardly have anything left over, but prisoners should just pocket it all?

probably_wrong 4y ago
Yes, they should "pocket it all". Without the opportunity to save _some_ money they are guaranteed to end up homeless (or worse) as soon as they leave the jail. Being "rich" in prison doesn't mean you get to improve your gaming rig or buy a Roomba, it just means you don't have to consider whether to spend $2 to see the doctor. I would be fine with that. Also, everything in prison is reported to be expensive, bad quality, and full of extra fees. So if they only have one expensive brand of toothpaste, they should at least earn enough to afford _those_ prices.
Ekaros 4y ago
The society choose to lock them up. And part of that contract is to pay for expenses. It is not prisoners problem, society could as well kick them out and then they would need to pay for those themselves.
- okasaki 4y ago
  I'm not sure I find this argument convincing. Would you say that if I speed and get a fine, then society has chosen to fine me and so they should pay the fine?
  - monniez 4y ago
    You do not become a ward of the state when you receive a speeding ticket.
  - Ekaros 4y ago
    It is not like we charge people for time of the police when receiving speeding ticket. Or the paper it is written on.
ldoughty 4y ago
Do we want prison to be rehabilitation or a revolving door? If people leave with money, they can actually try to break the cycle... Perhaps try to keep some of their property/belongings for short incarcerations... Most Americans families would lose their house and/or car if one parent was in jail for 6 months... Which makes prison a family killer, encouraging more crime to continue from neglected children and single mom/dad now working 2-3 jobs to cost the gap
- okasaki 4y ago
  Sure, that's probably all true. I'm just trying to contrast the reality of living outside of prison (a substantial amount of money goes to living expenses) to living in prison (you have or should have no expenses). To me if you pay prisoners a normal wage it would seem too much like a reward for breaking crime, given that we pay all their normal expenses as well.
  - monniez 4y ago
    Going to prison is no reward. No sane person would go to prison for the chance to earn minimum wage. Furthermore, as the article states, prison services are substandard or entirely missing. Either fix that and we can talk deductions above normal taxes or allow the prisoners to earn minimum wage or more and to keep their earnings.
    - JumpCrisscross 4y ago
      > No sane person would go to prison for the chance to earn minimum wage It's not minimum wage. It's minimum wage plus room and board plus shitty food and healthcare. Even for someone young and healthy, albeit uneducated, a few years in prison could yield a nest egg. For someone with a chronic health condition, getting sentenced could be the smart move. (This is true even today, depending on your city and state.) The price of prison labor, what companies and the government pay for it, should be no less than prevailing wages. Ideally, indexed to the county the prison is in. What the prisoner is paid out of that should deduct some amount, again ideally related to a local cost-of-living index, that goes into a rehabilitation fund.
becquerel 4y ago
yes.