4 ms·

I see your sentiment at r/antiwork but allow me to challenge that: Bare minimum to not get fired and doing what is expected of you are different things. There i

by _8j50 4y ago

I see your sentiment at r/antiwork but allow me to challenge that: Bare minimum to not get fired and doing what is expected of you are different things. There is work you accepted when you get hired and then if you fail to live up to that and all you do is just enough that the cost of replacing you isn't worth it, I think that is what the article is about. If you are doing hourly type low paid work I get it. You get what you pay for and all. But salaried workers get paid whatever they are able to negotiate. Still labor in exchange for money but only if you show results. Another way I will put it is, business is a competition right? Each employee is a competitive advantage to their employer, any business needs a certain portion of workers to do more than bare minimum to not get fired or else it would end up providing service equivalent to that. I am all for workers rights but this shitty attitude sucks. Just about any place I try to do business at I practically have to beg them to take my money and then smile as retail workers, customer support,etc... shit on me. Because they don't give a shit how their laziness affects others other than their employer. No pride in their work. This is the difference between the US these days and countries where it is offensive to tip people because they take pride in their work and paying them extra to do their job is saying they are lazy and lack self-respect as a default. Work set/scheduled hours. Don't overwork yourself but come on! Give a shit and do more than what it takes to not get fired because you take pride in what you do? Because you do it day in and out and that is what you leave behind, your story!? Because someone raised you to respect yourself and act honorably? sigh what is the point. Might as well talk gibberish in this "us vs them" society.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
bfuller 4y ago
How much do you make per year? I wonder how good of a mood you would be in if you were working 2+ fast food jobs to support your kids in a tiny apartment.
- _8j50 4y ago
  Like I said for low pay jobs I get it.
akomtu 4y ago
Employers give below-inflation "merit increases" (a paycut basically) and employees do the same in return. Why would a retail worker bother if his pay now buys half as much?
- _8j50 4y ago
  Again, for low pay and hourly work I get it. But still, pay or not treat customers right or go work in a warehouse or something. Treat others the way you want to be treated, if I am in a retail store or a restaurant I don't give a shit how much they get paid they don't have to work if they don't want to. They can form unions, have strikes etc... but taking it out on me their customer is called being an asshole. If anything, I am growing less and less sympathetic to pro-labor movements because of this. The scale at which this is happening means it has no effect other than to be mean out of spite and empower laziness. I can't go to another business to encourage better pay at this one and tbh, if you mistreat me because you don't get paid enough I only want permanent unemployment for you and nothing more. If you work for amazon and meet your minimim metrics though, power to you. I have no problem with packages being delivered late lol.
  - SauciestGNU 4y ago
    As someone who has an extensive background in costumer service (I worked in and managed restaurants before grad school), I think customer-facing jobs often get the worst of things like this. Yes, I believe there is a baseline of professionalism for those positions, but the public is frankly abusive to service workers and I will never blame them for acting indifferent or less than enthusiastic. To your point of "go work in a warehouse" I mean fair, and that's why restaurants are hemorrhaging staff to the cannabis industry. But it's the customers who need the attitude adjustment. In what world do these people live where it's ok to berate, insult, sometimes assault, and otherwise demean workers? The public are pigs, and by the time you personally receive bad service from a worker they've probably been taking abuse from entitled jerks for the bulk of their shift.
    - _8j50 4y ago
      I am not talking about rude customers, those get what is coming to them. I worked in a customer service position many moons ago myself, I literally quit right after a guy verbally abuser me for hours, I am no stranger to this. But, if you take one customer's mistreatment of you on another customer that is doing their best to do right by you or you have a shitty jaded attitude work elsewhere or fix your attitude. Fake smiles and politeness if you must, that should be your default. And they stereotype people and presume shit all the time which is very unfair. And I am supposed to feel sorry for them because other customers mistreat them? I think not, they treat others in a mean way without cause and they got what was coming to them as well. You know in essence, this is the core principle of justice that even if a million people that fit a pattern are guilty, for the sake of the one innocent you treat them all with fairness and without prejudice. So long as retail/service workers and peope like you continue to justify mistreating people as a default, while in principle I am very much for more pay for them (glad to pay proprtionally more as well as less profits for their employer), unions, better hours and treatment, because of the default hostility against the few that are polite and tip well I will only advocate for worse conditions. Perhaps we could shop more online and ghost kitchens delivering home can adequately replace restaurants.
internet_user 4y ago
> Bare minimum to not get fired and doing what is expected of you are different things. They literally hammer into your head for months on end that employees will do the absolute bare minimum not to get fired in every MBA program. Ordinary pay gets ordinary effort. And businesses always want the cheapest supplier.
- _8j50 4y ago
  I don't know about mba programs but that is categorically untrue. People in well paying jobs (like tech for example) that love what they do, typically do more than minimum. Managers also make a difference, some of them are so good theit works want to put in their best work. Also, vitality curve is a thing (20/80 principle).
gurumeditations 4y ago
Lol… peak ignorance and naïveté.
legalcorrection 4y ago
>sigh what is the point. Might as well talk gibberish in this "us vs them" society Yeah it’s too bad. The quality of service has totally gone to shit in this country. But God forbid you complain, then you’re a Karen. People are “nice” these days, but they forgot how to be good. A nice person is trying to avoid conflict all the time. A good person is willing to enforce society’s standards in their interactions with other people.
lotsofpulp 4y ago
> Work set/scheduled hours. For decades, employers have been intentionally scheduling employees erratically so that they have less opportunity to find better options and running bare bones staff with no redundancy while forcing employees to be on call. Employers were able to do this due to the vast amounts of supply of labor relative to demand in conjunction with lack of taxpayer funded safety net and lack of minimum quality of life at work labor laws. It is reasonable to expect society, after decades, to learn from this and begin playing by the rules that society has been propagating, which is that you look out for yourself first, and if you can climb to the top while stepping on others, it will have no negative effect on you. > This is the difference between the US these days and countries where it is offensive to tip people because they take pride in their work and paying them extra to do their job is saying they are lazy and lack self-respect as a default. I agree, but it is an unfortunate consequence of the breakdown of trust between one another. However, I find it hard to blame workers, when it is at the end of the day, voters and the people influencing voters to vote against things like sick/vacation leave, parental leave, minimum salaries that pay more than minimum wage, removing tipped minimum wages, daily overtime laws, etc.
hallihax 4y ago
The 'bare minimum to not get fired' is the expectation of any job. If the employer wants to increase the expectations levelled on employees, then they should write it into their contracts. No contract? No expectations. You can't hold people to some abstract set of expectations that are never written down anywhere; and if you try - well that's why they have to invent a stupid term like 'quiet quitting'.

by _8j50 4y ago

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

bfuller 4y ago

How much do you make per year? I wonder how good of a mood you would be in if you were working 2+ fast food jobs to support your kids in a tiny apartment.

_8j50 4y ago
Like I said for low pay jobs I get it.

akomtu 4y ago

Employers give below-inflation "merit increases" (a paycut basically) and employees do the same in return. Why would a retail worker bother if his pay now buys half as much?

_8j50 4y ago
Again, for low pay and hourly work I get it. But still, pay or not treat customers right or go work in a warehouse or something. Treat others the way you want to be treated, if I am in a retail store or a restaurant I don't give a shit how much they get paid they don't have to work if they don't want to. They can form unions, have strikes etc... but taking it out on me their customer is called being an asshole. If anything, I am growing less and less sympathetic to pro-labor movements because of this. The scale at which this is happening means it has no effect other than to be mean out of spite and empower laziness. I can't go to another business to encourage better pay at this one and tbh, if you mistreat me because you don't get paid enough I only want permanent unemployment for you and nothing more. If you work for amazon and meet your minimim metrics though, power to you. I have no problem with packages being delivered late lol.
- SauciestGNU 4y ago
  As someone who has an extensive background in costumer service (I worked in and managed restaurants before grad school), I think customer-facing jobs often get the worst of things like this. Yes, I believe there is a baseline of professionalism for those positions, but the public is frankly abusive to service workers and I will never blame them for acting indifferent or less than enthusiastic. To your point of "go work in a warehouse" I mean fair, and that's why restaurants are hemorrhaging staff to the cannabis industry. But it's the customers who need the attitude adjustment. In what world do these people live where it's ok to berate, insult, sometimes assault, and otherwise demean workers? The public are pigs, and by the time you personally receive bad service from a worker they've probably been taking abuse from entitled jerks for the bulk of their shift.
  - _8j50 4y ago
    I am not talking about rude customers, those get what is coming to them. I worked in a customer service position many moons ago myself, I literally quit right after a guy verbally abuser me for hours, I am no stranger to this. But, if you take one customer's mistreatment of you on another customer that is doing their best to do right by you or you have a shitty jaded attitude work elsewhere or fix your attitude. Fake smiles and politeness if you must, that should be your default. And they stereotype people and presume shit all the time which is very unfair. And I am supposed to feel sorry for them because other customers mistreat them? I think not, they treat others in a mean way without cause and they got what was coming to them as well. You know in essence, this is the core principle of justice that even if a million people that fit a pattern are guilty, for the sake of the one innocent you treat them all with fairness and without prejudice. So long as retail/service workers and peope like you continue to justify mistreating people as a default, while in principle I am very much for more pay for them (glad to pay proprtionally more as well as less profits for their employer), unions, better hours and treatment, because of the default hostility against the few that are polite and tip well I will only advocate for worse conditions. Perhaps we could shop more online and ghost kitchens delivering home can adequately replace restaurants.

internet_user 4y ago

> Bare minimum to not get fired and doing what is expected of you are different things. They literally hammer into your head for months on end that employees will do the absolute bare minimum not to get fired in every MBA program. Ordinary pay gets ordinary effort. And businesses always want the cheapest supplier.

_8j50 4y ago
I don't know about mba programs but that is categorically untrue. People in well paying jobs (like tech for example) that love what they do, typically do more than minimum. Managers also make a difference, some of them are so good theit works want to put in their best work. Also, vitality curve is a thing (20/80 principle).

gurumeditations 4y ago

Lol… peak ignorance and naïveté.

legalcorrection 4y ago

>sigh what is the point. Might as well talk gibberish in this "us vs them" society Yeah it’s too bad. The quality of service has totally gone to shit in this country. But God forbid you complain, then you’re a Karen. People are “nice” these days, but they forgot how to be good. A nice person is trying to avoid conflict all the time. A good person is willing to enforce society’s standards in their interactions with other people.

lotsofpulp 4y ago

> Work set/scheduled hours. For decades, employers have been intentionally scheduling employees erratically so that they have less opportunity to find better options and running bare bones staff with no redundancy while forcing employees to be on call. Employers were able to do this due to the vast amounts of supply of labor relative to demand in conjunction with lack of taxpayer funded safety net and lack of minimum quality of life at work labor laws. It is reasonable to expect society, after decades, to learn from this and begin playing by the rules that society has been propagating, which is that you look out for yourself first, and if you can climb to the top while stepping on others, it will have no negative effect on you. > This is the difference between the US these days and countries where it is offensive to tip people because they take pride in their work and paying them extra to do their job is saying they are lazy and lack self-respect as a default. I agree, but it is an unfortunate consequence of the breakdown of trust between one another. However, I find it hard to blame workers, when it is at the end of the day, voters and the people influencing voters to vote against things like sick/vacation leave, parental leave, minimum salaries that pay more than minimum wage, removing tipped minimum wages, daily overtime laws, etc.

hallihax 4y ago

The 'bare minimum to not get fired' is the expectation of any job. If the employer wants to increase the expectations levelled on employees, then they should write it into their contracts. No contract? No expectations. You can't hold people to some abstract set of expectations that are never written down anywhere; and if you try - well that's why they have to invent a stupid term like 'quiet quitting'.