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With Java their playbook was to sell licenses for the embedded world and that only caused problems for everyone involved. Some Linux Distros ended up actively s

by josefx 4y ago

With Java their playbook was to sell licenses for the embedded world and that only caused problems for everyone involved. Some Linux Distros ended up actively sabotaging Java with GCJ because of FREEDOM(TM). Various companies where blocking the community process to force a license change. Google ended up stitching together its own mostly incompatible Java but not implementation. Even the move to OpenJDK was used as basis of fear mongering when the licensing of the proprietary JDK was updated.

sangnoir 4y ago
> Distros ended up actively sabotaging Java with GCJ because of FREEDOM(TM). For many years, Sun refused to provide the TCK to certify Apache Harmony as an official Java (donated to Apache by Sun's erstwhile foe, IBM[1]). Sun's official version of Java was nor open source then,so Linux distros had limited options for open-source Java compilers, and their actions cannot be justifiably called sabotage. Incidentally, Android tooling was initially based on Apache Harmony. 1. Many years later, I read an angry missive by someone at Sun who alleged that Eclipse (the IDE) was maliciously named by IBM. I never would have guessed it, but Sun/IBM were frenemies then.
- josefx 4y ago
  > For many years, Sun refused to provide the TCK to certify Apache Harmony as an official Java (donated to Apache by Sun's erstwhile foe, IBM[1]). Are you implying that GCJ was any more certified than Harmony? Because I would be surprised if it was, quite sure the TCK license was only opened up a bit when it became necessary to allow verification of OpenJDK derived implementations. > had limited options for open-source Java compilers As in none. They didn't have any options. So they fell back to GCJ, which could have been viable with significant time and effort. Instead it was still missing significant functionality even after OpenJDK was released, at which point it was too late. I just realized how short the time between GCJ being able to run eclipse (2004) and being obsoleted by OpenJDK (2007) was, I somehow managed to set up enough new systems in that time frame to remember starting eclipse and realizing it was running on top of gcj as significant annoyance.
  - sangnoir 4y ago
    > Are you implying that GCJ was any more certified than Harmony? No I am not. I am, however implying GCJ was as uncertified as Harmony, meaning they were seen as somewhat equals, despite Harmony's superiority (IMO). The situation would have been very different if Harmony had been officially blessed as Java, but I understand Sun's reluctance in cutting off its own revenue stream > As in none. GCJ and Harmony were the most well known Free/open source Java (the language) compilers, and were the choices available to distros that do not promote proprietary software. These, as you stated, were not Sun-certified Java™ due to the TCK situation - but they could compile java projects well enough.

by josefx 4y ago

sangnoir 4y ago

> Distros ended up actively sabotaging Java with GCJ because of FREEDOM(TM). For many years, Sun refused to provide the TCK to certify Apache Harmony as an official Java (donated to Apache by Sun's erstwhile foe, IBM[1]). Sun's official version of Java was nor open source then,so Linux distros had limited options for open-source Java compilers, and their actions cannot be justifiably called sabotage. Incidentally, Android tooling was initially based on Apache Harmony. 1. Many years later, I read an angry missive by someone at Sun who alleged that Eclipse (the IDE) was maliciously named by IBM. I never would have guessed it, but Sun/IBM were frenemies then.

josefx 4y ago
> For many years, Sun refused to provide the TCK to certify Apache Harmony as an official Java (donated to Apache by Sun's erstwhile foe, IBM[1]). Are you implying that GCJ was any more certified than Harmony? Because I would be surprised if it was, quite sure the TCK license was only opened up a bit when it became necessary to allow verification of OpenJDK derived implementations. > had limited options for open-source Java compilers As in none. They didn't have any options. So they fell back to GCJ, which could have been viable with significant time and effort. Instead it was still missing significant functionality even after OpenJDK was released, at which point it was too late. I just realized how short the time between GCJ being able to run eclipse (2004) and being obsoleted by OpenJDK (2007) was, I somehow managed to set up enough new systems in that time frame to remember starting eclipse and realizing it was running on top of gcj as significant annoyance.
- sangnoir 4y ago
  > Are you implying that GCJ was any more certified than Harmony? No I am not. I am, however implying GCJ was as uncertified as Harmony, meaning they were seen as somewhat equals, despite Harmony's superiority (IMO). The situation would have been very different if Harmony had been officially blessed as Java, but I understand Sun's reluctance in cutting off its own revenue stream > As in none. GCJ and Harmony were the most well known Free/open source Java (the language) compilers, and were the choices available to distros that do not promote proprietary software. These, as you stated, were not Sun-certified Java™ due to the TCK situation - but they could compile java projects well enough.