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How to stop being “terminally online”

• silisili 4y ago
  One thing I've noticed about 'terminal online' is that people vastly underestimate how much it affects them. Myself included. It seems if I ever call out a loved one, whether my brother or wife or friend, for being on their phone too much, they immediately get defensive and argue they were just doing some one task. Even if this was initiated after them being zoned out for an hour or longer. And I've done the same when reading something super interesting and getting lost in time. Honestly, it doesn't seem much different than how addicts act in an intervention. We need to realize that this is an addiction, label and treat it appropriately. My wife finally relented when our kid asked me to do something while I was working because 'mom is too busy with Facebook again.' I think that really hurt her feelings, even if she never admitted as much.
  • applobabab 4y ago
    >mom is too busy with Facebook again That sent shivers down my spine, wow.
    • soulofmischief 4y ago
      My mom's been lost to Facebook and gambling apps for years. At some point in the last couple years I told her I didn't love her anymore because being around her is only negative and her screen addiction has put my life in danger on the road my entire life, and caused her to completely skip out on providing for her children. Zuck, Zynga, all of them can be launched into deep space for all I care.
    • bishopsmother 4y ago
      Unfortunately it's not unusual: "I wish mum's phone was never invented"[0] [0]https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-trending-44224319 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-trending-44224319
      • ryandrake 4y ago
        It’s so sad, I wonder if we’ll ever learn the full impact on kids from their parents’ phone addictions. I recently took my daughter to a playground and watched in horror another young couple there. Their 5 year old was nearly crying for them to pay attention and play with her, but there were mom and dad: hunched over their phones, doing that zoned-out zombie stumble-walk that people do when they are addict-scrolling. Really heartbreaking.
        • soulofmischief 4y ago
          A lot of educators have voiced concerns that kids in the last few years have displayed extreme regression in social skills. I don't think these two things aren't related.
  • iasay 4y ago
    My ex wife is an ex wife because she zoned out into Facebook constantly and stopped doing anything with the family. Then she went bananas and ran away with someone who ironically she split up with because he was always on Facebook. It can go pretty bad. I’m super happy though as the kids stayed with me :)
    • Aromasin 4y ago
      I'm struggling with this currently. My partner spends 3+ hours a day scrolling Instagram (I know, I checked it in her Apple phone metrics). When we watch movies, it's me watching it and her scrolling. When we're in the car listening to music, it's just me listening to music and her scrolling. I'm starting to struggle initiating conversations because she's simply not paying attention. Whenever we're out, half her time is spent through the lense of her phone so she can take photos for her story. She refuses to admit its a problem, disregards any argument I put forward about how it's disrupting her life, and when I really sit down with her and tell her how it makes me feels, she attacks me about the time I spend at my laptop (which I track meticulously and know its at most an hour outside of work, so she is simply using it as a defense). I've dated girls with drug addictions before, and it was easier than this because they at least admitted it was a problem. I feel like I can't even initiate the first step with her. It's crushing, because besides this issue, she's pretty much perfect.
      • Feritioyyyyy 4y ago
        Have you ever thought of making Instagram 'sliw' sometimes? Might be unethical or it might help her to get away from it? Perhaps talk to a therapist about how to approach it?
        • BbzzbB 4y ago
          sliw?
      • iasay 4y ago
        Honestly looking back at my situation which paralleled yours, life’s not worth suffering through. Took 7 years to sort it out here which was a big chunk of my life. If you’re not happy, get out of the situation that makes you unhappy as soon as you can. The regrets hurt more than the relationship problems did.
  • papito 4y ago
    Having done a fair share of substance abuse, I can tell you that screen and social media addiction is exactly like any other addiction. The brain mechanics behind it are the same. "Just another hit and then I am done". The Power of Habit (the book) helped me identify my bad habits the moment they triggered. Also, what's fascinating is that addictions seem to bundle together. If I get off the sauce, start working out, etc, it becomes immediately easier to ignore the phone, social media, and other reflexive behavior, like snacking for no reason.
    • wpietri 4y ago
      I totally feel you on the bundling. One way I think about it: Marvin Minsky long ago wrote a book called Society of Mind, looking at human cognition as a series of semi-independent non-conscious agents. If I feel bad long enough, there's a collection of feel-better-in-the-short-term agents that work well together: mindless snacking, doomscrolling, playing video games, binge watching, overeating etc. Basically anything that helps me avoid being present in feeling bad. Even if in the long term they make me feel worse. But there's a competing set of agents, the ones that mean regular exercise and eating healthily and good sleep and low stress levels. That set not only works well when I'm feeling good, but they're what helps keep me feeling good in the long term. Either set can achieve a stable equilibrium, but the two sets aren't really compatible. Not sure if that makes any sense, but that's one way I think about it.
• ElemenoPicuares 4y ago
  I hate to throw a purely negative comment up as a naked response to a post, but this is really just a contemptful screed about people engaging in online interactions the author doesn't jibe with. It's not even like they're presenting their opinion to elicit other perspectives-- it's presented as an objective list of unhealthy habits and patronizing instructions to align your behavior with the author's values and priorities. Not sure if the author intended this to be publicly consumed in this form but I'll skip their other blog entries.
  • deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  • jayceedenton 4y ago
    What does 'objective' even mean in this context? This is a post about what the author believes is healthy and positive for individuals and society. I don't see anywhere where contempt is shown, in fact quite the opposite. The post is written in a very empathetic way in my opinion, and I think displays a good level of insight into, and understanding of, the attractiveness of things that can do harm. I'd challenge you to entertain the idea that this post has some good advice, and follow some of it. I have no data, but I expect you'll be happier as a result.
    • ElemenoPicuares 4y ago
      If you don't see contempt in the author's evaluation of other people's behavior, you're either not looking, or not a great judge of it. > I'd challenge you to entertain the idea that this post has some good advice, and follow some of it. I have no data, but I expect you'll be happier as a result. Personally, I don't fit any of the implied criteria for "terminal onlineness," so your challenge isn't possible. You don't merely lack data, you lack a valid reason for assuming this advice applies to me or any other person whose habits you know nothing about. I recommend you entertain the idea that neither righteousness in your conviction nor confidence in your words transform your assumptions and personal experiences into broadly applicable maxims. Even if this advice addresses problems you, personally, struggle with, that's not necessarily true for everybody. I know brilliant, happy, well-adjusted people, like my wife, who engage in behavior this author deems undesirable. It's just not that cut and dried. Perhaps the author's conclusions suffer from sampling bias? Regardless, I will still skip the rest of their blog entries.
• padolsey 4y ago
  Hmm, this isn't really a "howto" post. It's the authors' disdain and insecurities masquerading as one.
• timellis-smith 4y ago
  Honestly, I'm an information addict. I'm online far too much mainly reading news etc. I think I've forgotten how I lived without a constant stream of information. I'm seriously tempted to get a dumb phone to remove temptation to browse when I have a few minutes to spare. The stupid thing is for all my reading, I don't feel any wiser or even knowledgeable. At the same time I think I'm less able to engage in normal conversation.
  • nicbou 4y ago
    Instead, try cutting the triggers with an ad blocker and a few changes to your settings. I hide recommended content, unsubscribe from everything, unfollow everything, and generally have a "don't call me, I'll call you" approach to information. I went as far as removing pagination buttons on websites I tend to browse too much. I also use Pocket to save more interesting articles. Combined with a "things I don't understand" to-do list, I spend more time reading about practical things instead of just browsing. I don't regret that sort of reading.
  • raptorraver 4y ago
    I was like you few months ago. When summer started I decided to stop reading news from online. It was hard at first but quite fast I started seeing the benefits. More focus, more happiness, not being so worried all the time. Now I only read HN (way too often of course :)) and I ordered a newspaper to my home which is published 3 times a week. I get distilled look on whats going on in the world but it’s not eating my focus.
    • crims0n 4y ago
      I tried to do this as well... bought a year subscription to the local paper. Unfortunately I live semi-rural and it is written so egregiously its only worth is feeding the firebox each week.
      • Calamitous 4y ago
        If it makes you feel any better, I did the same thing, but I live semi-urban, and it was similarly egregious. I don’t have a firebox, but I suppose it kept the recycling man in business.
• sidcool 4y ago
  I am listening to the audiobook "Stolen Focus" and it has some good points on internet addiction. Most importantly, it's useless to blame yourselves completely for the addictive behaviours. The tech industry is spending billions on experts to get you hooked. In a way, tech industry is like Purdue pharma. But the responsibility is still individual's.
  • scaramanga 4y ago
    The way I like to think about it is that lots of people or places might be responsible: society, big industry, governments failure to regulate, so on and so forth. Those are interesting academic, or political discussions if we're talking about collective political actions that we might take. On the other hand, understanding that you are addicted, and why, are the first steps towards individuals feeling empowered to quit. Which, in many, if not almost all, cases - they absolutely are able to do. And it certainly improves their odds if they have a network of supportive friends, family, and the like. For someone who isn't an addict, taking a non judgemental and understanding approach to get the addict to ask him or herself those questions or set themselves on the path to recovery may be a way to meaningfully help them. But it can only really work if they're already open and receptive to that. And that depends, to a great extent, on what your relationship is with them and how much they trust you.
• Zababa 4y ago
  I think the article would be better if it started with a definition of terminally online. It doesn't have a strict definition that everyone agrees on.
  • 867-5309 4y ago
    I think "chronically online" would be a better fit
• innocentfelon4 4y ago
  Recently I was arrested and had all my electronics seized by the police. The whole experience was a wake-up call, not just in terms of being arrested but being without a computer or any way to get online for a couple of weeks. It really made me realize how 'addicted' I was to the internet, and going cold turkey was horrible, time slowed down and I was sure I was missing out on everything. But I read so much more and all the days seemed longer (time dragged so much) and then when I finally got back online I hadn't missed sh*t.
  • rendall 4y ago
    Yikes! Was this in the US? Did you get a lawyer?
    • deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
  • scaramanga 4y ago
    That actually sounds like heaven :)
  • eastbound 4y ago
    Did they give it back to you? How do you get information about a lawyer without computer or mobile phone???
  • XorNot 4y ago
    > But I read so much more You're reading all the time on the internet, it's literally the foundational enabling skill of it. I find it very weird when people say the benefit of being offline is they "read more".
    • glitchc 4y ago
      Online reading is all sizzle and no steak. It’s akin to making a meal out of condiments: Each individual element is tasty but the overall meal leaves you dissatisfied.
• Eleison23 4y ago
  It's a balancing act and for me, Internet use is an addiction like gluttony. Forgive my lack of empathy, but addiction takes on a whole other quality when you're addicted to some necessity of life. Food is, of course, a quintessential necessity, and someone who overeats or has an eating disorder needs to come to terms with temperance, moderation, and balance of lifestyle, rather than quit eating altogether. 15 years ago, it was realistic to hang up the modem, unplug the computer, get face out of screen, and get some fresh air for long stretches of time. But my reality today is that I use a device online to manage my household and do ordinary, everyday tasks, including working for my employer is 100% online. Implicit in this article is the fact that the Internet is no longer something to be avoided or removed from our lives; the article simply suggests that we can use it differently, improving our attitudes and our approach. So rather than a "kick the habit" strategy, we typically need to devise time-management techniques and ways to form better habits around good, productive use of our devices, while balancing that with actual needs to unplug and take a walk in the fresh air. That may mean that I don't obsessively check bank balances and twiddle my bill payments 3 times a day, 7 days a week. And it means that I'm not allowing every email and SMS to distract me from a task. And perhaps channels about home meal preparation and gentleman's grooming should be dominating my YouTube suggestions, above SNL and Avril Lavigne tracks. I also need to cope with being triggered. If I have an anxiety attack or fit of rage over someone who's Wrong on the Internet, I am guaranteed to suffer insomnia and all the rest. And so we need the skillsets to short-circuit and defuse those situations, and sometimes the situation is avoidable and sometimes we need to find a way to push through it without losing our heads. This blogger offers 15 pragmatic, common-sense strategies for coping. And it can get better. Do not believe that you can escape the Internet by avoiding it, nor can you escape real life by going online. Develop good hygiene, good habits, be productive, and learn to cope when things inevitably get difficult.
• JanneVee 4y ago
  Well it is a good message but a tad poorly researched and underdeveloped thoughts. Being stuck in a "compulsion loop" online is not healthy for your mind. It doesn't matter if it is Twitter, TikTok or even Hacker News. What I'm seeing online now and those around me. Online behaviours that take the form of addictions are not healthy and should not be a part of a healthy persons lifestyle. And I wish that it would become a trend.
• johnchristopher 4y ago
  What does `terminally online` mean precisely ? What's the definition ?
  • jackvalentine 4y ago
    It’s the vibe, it’s Mabo.
• someweirdperson 4y ago
  I don't spend too much time online. Proof: I didn't read that blog post, because it is faaar too long.
• cousin_it 4y ago
  I think the internet has accelerated the evolution of "mind viruses". New arguments and rhetorical tricks arise and mutate very fast. If you jump off it, that'll be good for you, but when you get back on after a long time, you might have no "immune defense" against what the internet came up with in the meantime. Similar to how the USSR was outside Western cultural evolution for awhile, and when it broke up in the 90s, people turned out very vulnerable to colorful ads, bubblegum and Ponzi schemes. Maybe the fear of such "falling off the wagon" is part of what keeps us on the internet. We don't want to lose the world's thread of conversation, because in the end one way or another it will affect us anyway. It's like not coming to the forum where future laws are decided.
  • JW_00000 4y ago
    I don't know if you're aware of this, but this "mind virus" is the original definition of the word "meme" (before it got adopted to mean a particular kind of image-based online joke). See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meme https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meme Besides that, I agree completely. Twitter is a sort of highly competitive petri dish in which only the most infectious viruses can survive, with "viruses" being 160 character pieces of text. These messages do not need to be true or actually informative to survive and spread.
• city17 4y ago
  Some interesting thoughts, but an excellent example of why we use capital letters. Uncomfortable to read in all lower caps.
• blfr 4y ago
  It's a good guide but it only addresses fairly vacuous and not that great online activities. My Twitter feed is a collection of funniest, most deranged takes on any subject. People IRL have no chance to compete, no one can outdo the best two seconds of 800 people. Same with HN. Conversations like these are rarely happening offline. And then there are communities I sunk into. Private forums I have been a member of for nearly a decade. I know the in-jokes, we follow the stories of more interesting (chaotic) posters, there's even some real emotional investment. All of that reachable fully asynchronously. Went to the gym alone? Read between the sets. Waiting for something? It's right there on your phone. Sadly, also, someone being boring... well, better stuff is in your pocket.
  • swiftcoder 4y ago
    > Same with HN. Conversations like these are rarely happening offline. May I suggest that you might be looking in the wrong places offline? HN-style discussions are a staple of lunchtime banter at any number of tech firms. Likewise you can find similar discussions at any number of universities, or on the tech conference circuit. Not to mention your local nerd-leaning special-interest communities (be it tabletop, D&D, hacker space, BDSM, etc). The internet makes it really easy to find a community of folks who share similar interests, all without leaving your house. But unless you live in the middle of nowhere, one can generally find such a community IRL
    • blfr 4y ago
      The lunchtime banter at my (tech) company is mostly silence since few people come to the office.
      • cyberbanjo 4y ago
        Have you tried an amateur radio meetup?
    • h2odragon 4y ago
      "Lunchtime banter"? You mean ya'll don't use lunch as the daily progress reports meeting? So inefficient! The place that did that was a bad work environment; shockingly enough the "working" lunches weren't the worst habit they had either.
• 5350-uiop-1130 4y ago
  it's simply more desirable than the alternative. being stuck with your thoughts, past regrets and future worries.
  • scaramanga 4y ago
    Yes, I think this is the least understood point about addictions. They kind of work. I mean, people do those behaviours because they are getting something out of it.
• tppiotrowski 4y ago
  I try to write down what I'm about to use the internet for before I open the web browser. This way I can glance and see if I've gotten distracted and try to get back on task. This works wonders when trying to list something on FB Marketplace. In the past I would be three posts deep in my feed before snapping out of it and remembering why I opened FB in the first place. I can see why the feed was such a game changer for FB. Before you can use FB for anything you will be forced to glance at the feed :(
  • tenebrisalietum 4y ago
    This could be an awesome extension. Something that asks you in a couple textboxes - what is your goal with this browser session/how much time do you think you need to accomplish it - and then keeps these items of info visible below the tab bar.
• b3nji 4y ago
  Why does it feel that more and more people aren't not using capital letters anymore? What is this, a trend, some kind of movement?
  • zach_garwood 4y ago
    e e cummings would be proud!
• ben_w 4y ago
  One more option to complement the rest: what I do is have the cheapest, smallest, mobile data package that lets me get done the stuff I actually value (3 GB/month, turning my commute into a focused time for various online learning courses). There’s some spare bandwidth for habitually chatting, but not much.
• HealthNeed 4y ago
  The lack of capitalization made me sprint through the text. I wonder if anyone else had this experience. I had to come up for air towards the end. Even after I realized I was doing it I couldn't slow down.
• nonrandomstring 4y ago
  Health and online activity are inextricably linked at this point. Mental health. Cardiovascular health. Health of interpersonal relationships. Work life balance. I sincerely think we are at an equivalent situation as the tobacco industry in the 1970s. The decisions we make now will affect the lives of generations to come. Cal Newport's site has a Ledger of Harms [1] at the Center for Humane Technology, and I wrote what I hope is an accessible and lightly challenging overview of the problem of technology overuse in Digital Vegan [2]. [1] https://ledger.humanetech.com/?ref=witsio https://ledger.humanetech.com/?ref=witsio [2] https://digitalvegan.net https://digitalvegan.net
  • codethief 4y ago
    > Cal Newport's site has a Ledger of Harms [1] at the Center for Humane Technology Sorry, I'm not following. Could you elaborate on the connection between Cal Newport and the site you linked to?
    • nonrandomstring 4y ago
      I may be mistaken but Center for Humane Technology which compiled the "Ledger of harms" is an umbrella for critical thought on digital tech whose members include folk like Roger McNamee, Cal Newport, Jonathan Haidt, Max Stossel, Tristan Harris and others. Actually it would be fairer to call it Harris' site (since he is the "president" of it)
      • codethief 4y ago
        Thanks!
  • mlac 4y ago
    I got part way through Digital Vegan, but admittedly haven’t finished it yet. It’s been a few weeks since I had to put it down for another book, but here is my main takeaway (so far) - it’s all true, but in my opinion it comes across with very strong views and some extreme options as something to hand non-technical friends. It’s also relatively expensive to obtain in the US. But thank you for your contribution to the discussion on this topic. I think you’re probably closer to where we should end up, but I don’t see a path to get there.
• dutchbrit 4y ago
  I broke my phones screen the other day & decided not to install Facebook and other apps like Reddit on my “old” backup phone, so far I’m liking it. Certain communities on Facebook are quite interesting but my main feed is filled with so much viral junk that I end up scrolling through crap for hours a week.. Once I start, it consumes me for a while. Kind of sad really, I would rather spend time doing other relaxing things offline instead. Just came back from a 2 hour walk outside with my son through our local park and farm, usually I'd of checked Facebook at least twice, I enjoyed it a hell of a lot more without “having to check” this or that. I miss the simple days of just having forums and IM.
• rco8786 4y ago
  A lot of good questions to ask yourself here. But, > have you ever used/applied "internet slang" (cringe, based, cuck, chad) in/to real-life situations? I take slight issue with this one. To me, there is no difference between “internet slang” and just “slang”. The internet is ubiquitous and the language we use online and offline is largely the same now. Didn’t always be this way. I still remember the first time I heard a friend say “epic fail” in really life circa 2005 or so, and it was like some sort of glass wall had been broken between our real lives and our internet lives. But that wall is long gone, and I think that’s probably okay.
  • wruza 4y ago
    Not only gone, I’ve heard internet and/or local imageboard slang from people who surely never visited the source of it. It feels strange to conceal your own subculture from those who speak it freely.
  • naillo 4y ago
    There are actually a huge chunk of the population that just isn't very online, and genuinely don't know these terms. (Even many young people.) It was a real eye opener to meet some 'terminally offline' people and realize you can actually just escape and things are fine without being here constantly.
    • thrown_22 4y ago
      I can be online constantly and escape whatever the flavour of the month is. The only time it bites me in the ass is when I get banned for not being up to date on whatever everyone good and decent has to agree with to be good and decent.
      • athorax 4y ago
        If you are getting banned regularly from online communities you might want to reconsider why that is happening
        • 4y ago
• ramigb 4y ago
  Beautifully written with a lot of thought provoking paragraphs. I am a web developer who is working from home, also I make music in my free time and play online games. I relate highly to what was written but I don't see a way out unfortunately, at least not without shifting careers which is something I am not planning to do in the meantime.
• ZetaRicky 4y ago
  The author mentioning “based” and “cringe” reminded me that meme culture ages poorly while endlessly recycling the same tropes/jokes. Eight years ago the dichotomy was “dank”-“normie”, and Impact was used with way less meta-irony.
  • cratermoon 4y ago
    I recently re-read the first few verses of the LOLCat Bible[1]. It did not hold up well. 1 https://web.archive.org/web/20190327161227/http://www.lolcatbible.com/index.php?title=Main_Page https://web.archive.org/web/20190327161227/http://www.lolcat...
• puttycat 4y ago
  I have struggled with Internet addiction, and still do, for a long time, and so far the only thing that has helped to dramatically reduce usage time was the Firefox/Chrome extension News Feed Eradicator [1]. I didn't realize to what degree news feeds were attention black holes until I installed it. I still go often on social media, but thanks to this extension these visits now last a few seconds, to check messages and some specific people I check regularly. I highly recommend it. [1] https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/news-feed-eradicator/ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/news-feed-era...
  • Clubber 4y ago
    So would you categorize it as "news" addiction rather than internet addiction? I put quotes around news because today's news isn't really news, just over dramatization of current events, IMO. I select "not interested/don't recommend channel" on all "news" type stuff on YouTube, and it's a much better experience. I learn more about all kinda stuff that I'm interested in. It took a few weeks for it all to filter out, but YouTube has a bunch of interesting stuff that's not news/current events related.
• t43562 4y ago
  Who really cares - 100 years ago you might as well have moaned about people living through books. We have to live and learn 2nd hand because: * Learning some things 1st hand has a high chance of being fatal * We cannot afford to live all possible lives but we do have to be able to understand each other and each other's motives to be able to get along - this means we have to imagine what it's like to be someone else. The internet is just the latest way to communicate and learn things from/about other people.
  • MerelyMortal 4y ago
    A lot of people seem to care: everyone upvoting, commenting, and even you taking the time to comment. Internet-enabled pocket computers are vastly different than silent, dark, large, heavy, un-update-able, one-way, single-topic (more-or-less) sources of entertainment/distraction.
  • keyle 4y ago
    I agree with you but consider the following. There is gluttony and then, there is gluttony with junk foods. Books and Wikipedia addiction isn't quite like one more fetch of the Instagram feed. Update my story. See such and such latest story. Both are forms of escapes but one leads to a dangerous generation of waste.
  • deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  • coffeefirst 4y ago
    Eh, none of the bookworms I know ever had drastic changes in their personality consistent with anxiety or depression, or somehow became angry and bitter after binge-reading a 6 book fantasy series. It just isn't a thing that happens. I also don't think the internet itself—we didn't see this problem with blogs/wikipedia/trashy chain emails from your uncle. It's the feeds. Because everything is tuned for engagement, if there's a type of content that's going to mess with your head in particular, the algorithm will find it and hammer you with it.
    • toast0 4y ago
• helge9210 4y ago
  I wonder, if the lack of capital letters is a part of the message.
• mattgreenrocks 4y ago
  Author alludes to such, but the chief distinguishing factor I see is whether one prefers real life, or the unreal life offered by the Internet.
  • mxkopy 4y ago
    This. Sometimes being "terminally online" is better than the alternative until life circumstances change.
    • mattgreenrocks 4y ago
      I used to be much harder on people I perceived as being always online. Then I remember I was about as online as you could be in the late 90s. Sometimes, or even lots of times, people are just trying to get by.
  • cratermoon 4y ago
    The internet stopped being distinct from "real life" some time ago.
    • mattgreenrocks 4y ago
      It's the difference between staying at home playing video games at Friday night versus going somewhere with your friends. This choice is made every week, and if you choose video games over in-person social interaction repeatedly, then there is a difference between real life and digital life. The preference for "real life" I mention is a question of whether individuals engage with reality in non-digital form on a regular basis, or if they hide from it.
• thenerdhead 4y ago
  These are great questions. The process of introspection can lead to many new discoveries beyond internet addiction. Why are you the way you are? Why are you in the career you chose? Why are you living the life you live today? Not that you should overly become self-aware, but when you are aware of something you are or do without knowing previously, you can change your life in a positive way. Some of my favorite reads this year about the topic of the internet are: Four arguments for the elimination of television and Amusing ourselves to death These are great books to help you introspect on your technology habits.
  • lostNFound 4y ago
    At 21 I’ve only recently started asking myself those questions, after having been “pushed” into a coding career due to some strange life circumstances, when I was actually interested in finance and medicine before. When I got promoted to Sr, colleagues going “wow, only 21”, it felt good, and I never even stopped to ask myself if I really wanted it. In a lot of senses, introspection and thinking hurts; growing hurts, regrets hurt, dreams unfulfilled hurt, guilt hurts, what could’ve been hurt, and the future that awaits you, unless you change something, hurts. And distraction numbs the pain. Numbs the thoughts. I’ll take an uneducated guess that a big chunk of cases of anxiety and depression are not caused by chemical imbalances, and are simply people’s brains telling them “you’re doing something wrong, correct course! Correct course! Correct course!”. Kind of like the aircraft TCAS/GPWS “Terrain. Pull. Up. Pull. Up. Terrain. Terrain. Terrain” I guess that most people, both around me and online, never ask themselves those questions, and simply go through life as it happens. For some, that doesn’t go so bad. Almost never does a successful, happy, fulfilled, healthy life come from a lack of introspection and suffering. “I carry the wounds from the battles I avoided”.
    • SoftTalker 4y ago
      > I’ll take an uneducated guess that a big chunk of cases of anxiety and depression are not caused by chemical imbalances, and are simply people’s brains telling them “you’re doing something wrong, correct course! I've seen people educated in the field saying the same thing. Depression is nature's way to prod you to make a change in your life. Something isn't working. So you're probably not wrong, at least for some fraction of cases.
• oppofew 4y ago
  I had a similar wakeup call a couple of years back. I'd become really invested in online communities on Twitter, Reddit and Discord. Like others participating, I was becoming increasingly radicalised to the dominant group opinions there, and my world view was being gradually reshaped by every interaction with these echo chambers. I was repeating what I read there to friends and family offline, much to their bemusement. It was addictive and consuming! My trigger point for escaping this was unintentional. These happened to be a series of 'left-wing' online spaces (though what I'm about to write could occur anywhere really), and I was becoming increasingly internally critical of some of the dogma. After a certain incident on Reddit, where a moderator of a high-profile subreddit was banned site-wide for linking to a critical article about a Reddit admin, I posed a question on the Discord: what if this admin wasn't really what they say they are? The reaction was swift and fierce - people I'd talked nicely and comradely with for months and years lining up to shout down my question, calling it offensive, sending me insults, calling me a bigot. I was then banned from the server. This surprised and upset me to begin with, but then I started questioning myself and my motivations. Why was I so bothered about this? Why had I invested so much of my time and energy into these communities? Why would simply asking a question cause such a calamity? Did any of this really matter? Was engaging with any of this having a positive effect on anyone, including myself? Over time, this led to two major changes in how I approached using the internet. Firstly, attempting to broaden my mind to consider other views and opinions, avoiding dogma and narrow thinking (this is still in progress!). Secondly, not being as tied to accounts and identities online - I deleted or deactivated all my social media accounts, and now just create throwaways whenever I get a desire to comment. This helps me feel that I can walk away whenever I want to or need to. That said, I've found I still can't give up entirely on consuming social media, it's too addictive. But I hope this is a step in the right direction. I hope my sharing of these insights provides some value to others who may be experiencing similar.
• the_only_law 4y ago
  > what is your life philosophy? what do you believe in? do the communities you browse online reflect this in some way? did you learn about these from people online? If anything, there’s a better chance of finding this online vs irl.
• Tao3300 4y ago
  > if you find it hard to ditch tiktok, instagram, twitter, or some other similar site, going "cold turkey" will be even harder. try to gradually reduce your usage YMMV but my trick for Facebook was a hard commit to "I'm going to take 2 weeks off". Cold Turkey with a boundary. I think I check it once for five minutes every month or two now. HN is trickier because I don't have to login first to see it. When I start to think Im on it too much, I delete it from my password manager and don't supply an email. (Sorry, I know this is annoying to them what run this site) Another useful thing is to generally keep a "don't respond to first level replies" policy. Keeps you in discussions but out of knee-jerk responses. Might seem rude but it keeps you sane.
  • Claude_Shannon 4y ago
    It works for some people. I always had more success just gradually stopping. I had massive issue with that, I always tried going cold turkey. Then I just stared to count hours, set high - but still - limits. And over time I found I feel that I don't have to, even if I'm withing the limits - I felt no need.
  • deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  • PebblesRox 4y ago
    What worked for me with Facebook is doing "Facebook Fridays" - as much Facebook as I wanted on Fridays and nothing the rest of the week. It didn't take long to realize I was not missing much. With other sites like HN, I have short-term success with going cold turkey for a specific time-frame (e.g. a week). I can stick with that, and my use afterward is more moderate but eventually I come back to over-use.
• satokema 4y ago
  It's entirely reasonable to read through this article and come to the conclusion that you have a balanced approach to being online. My hobbies involve a computer and the people I enjoy interacting with are online, not on a meetup site or at work. The important thing is being able to self-reflect properly on it, and not delude oneself. I can still put my phone away to have dinner with family or some other outing easily, as a point of trying to be focused on whatever it is I'm doing.
• ChildOfChaos 4y ago
  I'm struggling with it. I have a website blocker on my Mac, but then I just turn it off eventually and go back to old habits, if I block hacker news, reddit etc, then I end up just having random thoughts and googling those and finding other sites to read through and of course sometimes reddit can have the answer for the thing i needed to google, so that can be annoying. I changed to a white list to try and solve this problem, but then I just keep finding little bits of websites i need access to, to do what I want, the minute I disable something or find a solution, I just get around it somehow or need to turn it off and end up at square one. I feel I tap into the " what is your life philosophy? what do you believe in? do the communities you browse online reflect this in some way? did you learn about these from people online?" this quite a lot. The internet for me, is not about watching cute cat videos, but trying to learn more about life, philosophy, how to be a better human, productivity porn etc, maybe it's a big insecurity of mine, but I think about this stuff all the time and the internet is a unending resource for all this stuff, I figure that a great resource in solving and thinking about all these things, must be other people and there own thoughts and experiences that I can learn from and then integrate with my own thinking and the internet gives me unending access to that, or at least in theory it does. So i'm reading through Hacking News, Reddit, blogs, watching youtube videos, podcasts etc, hoping to find those things and then I end up with a bunch of notes and documents etc, but it all kinda becomes overwhelming anyway, either from the content I am currently consuming or even all the thoughts and ideas I wrote down previous because I thought they where somehow useful. I honestly don't know what to do about this anymore. I'm trying to figure out a system for living more simply and internet consumption is part of it, but also there is the bigger issue that i mentioned which I think is the primary driver of that internet consumption.
  • wand3r 4y ago
    I use SelfControl App for Mac which adds the sites to your host file for a certain amount of hours. I find it to be very helpful now. Its also annoying to override it so while I could easily do it, usually it makes me delay until the "craving" passes.
    • ChildOfChaos 4y ago
• nibbleshifter 4y ago
  Buried deep within the post there is self-platform shilling, lol. "Why not use our social media webshit instead? We are different, I promise".
• InvOfSmallC 4y ago
  I uninstalled every social app. The reason I don't go back to a Nokia 3310 is because I have a company phone and I do part of my work on my phone (although I'd argue it's because I can't refuse to wait for when I'm in front of a laptop. It's convenient to do it now on the phone rather than waiting and doing it later.) And I actually tried to go back to my mum phone this summer, she had an old unused Samsung Galaxy J3 (Android 5). I only installed Telegram and Whatsapp. It's totally doable but it's really slow. The positive thing is that most of the apps stopped working for Android 5. So even if I wanted to install them I cannot. Unfortunately nobody uses in my area nothing else but discord, telegram and whatsapp so I feel I don't want to be completely disconnected that way. I was thinking that, well, I could actually just wait to be in front of a laptop also for telegram and whatsapp but it seemed too much.
• cratermoon 4y ago
  Simply quitting social media is the wrong response to the problems of the attention economy. Wrong also is adopting "calming" practices while uncritically embracing the ethos of social media companies. Resistance requires examining, questioning, and changing the underlying economic forces driving Silicon Valley. Publicly declaring abstention from social media demonstrates the abstainer's privilege and taste more than it does any higher purpose. The point is to be intentional about our attention, and decide what to focus on and how to do it. This requires discipline and planning.Discussions of the problems with social media must question the driving neoliberal economics, consumerism and the Free Market Fairy. Suggesting individuals should choose to abstain comes from a point of view where individual choice is elevated to moral dogma. Social media profits from human fallibility. Maintaining those profits under the pressures of capitalism requires the business to make people feel worse, and then offering them a palliative. In some respects, it's like the indulgences of the Catholic church in Martin Luther's time. The supposed values of social media in connecting and informing people, building communities, providing a medium of self-expression are warped by profit incentives. They no longer help. Instead, they exacerbate negativity. Social media have a vested interest in making things worse, or at less making them seem so.
• chris_wot 4y ago
  Not quite sure what "terminally online" really means...
  • zach_garwood 4y ago
    It's as if to say, "being online so much it will kill you," like having a "terminal disease."
• jader201 4y ago
  This article (and many similar articles often shared on HN) are written as if the target audience are adults. And maybe it is. But there are already plenty of articles about how we spend too much time online, and the effects of social media. But why aren’t there more articles like this targeting teens, e.g. when — or before — the problem starts? Language like this: > irony, post-irony, meta-irony, and whatever-irony are the lingua franca of the terminally online. makes it clear that this is not written with a general audience in mind. Are there articles that cover really good points like this in a way that really sinks in for a younger audience, to help them understand the risks and how to recognize the problem before it becomes a deep rooted and/or normalized addiction? As a parent of teens, it would be nice to find and share articles with them that are written in a way that really sinks in while not coming across as preachy/judgmental.
  • haswell 4y ago
    This is something I’ve been thinking about quite a bit. How to take these problems that a growing number of psychologists, psychiatrists and technologists understand to be problems, and repackaging that in a way that is palatable and effective for various audiences. I think articles like the one here need to exist to get communities like this one talking about how to expand the conversation. The trouble is, what is the right way to reach someone in their teens, at a time in their life when they’re probably far less worried about the “health” aspects of time online than they are about fitting in with their peers? I’ve wondered if the only way is to embrace the social media platforms people find themselves consumed with - to subtly deliver/grow the message that they should unplug. I’d say this conversation should start in schools, but am not optimistic that this would actually pan out.
• layer8 4y ago
  This needs a companion article “How to stop typing in lowercase only”.
• night-rider 4y ago
  There's another word/phrase for being 'terminally online' or Internet addiction, and it's 'Extremely online'[0]. Although whether one can be truly addicted to the Internet is debatable. There are extreme cases, like in Japan of gamers literally dying from prolonged & excessive playing of online video games. For me I dedicate a two hour window of time to being online, and typically come out of it enriched, not craving for more. It's a learning experience 99% of the time. > Extremely online (often capitalized[1]), also known as terminally online[2] or chronically online,[3] is a phrase referring to someone closely engaged with Internet culture.[1] People said to be extremely online often believe that online posts are very important.[4][5] Events and phenomena can themselves be extremely online;[4] while often used as a descriptive term, the phenomenon of extreme onlineness has been described as "both a reformation of the delivery of ideas – shared through words and videos and memes and GIFs and copypasta – and the ideas themselves".[5] It has been said that "'online' can be thought of as a way of doing things, not the place they are done".[4] > While the term was in use as early as 2014, it gained use over the latter half of the 2010s in conjunction with the increasing prevalence and notability of Internet phenomena in all areas of life.[1] Extremely online people, according to The Daily Dot, are interested in topics "no normal, healthy person could possibly care about",[1] and have been analogized to "pop culture fandoms, just without the pop".[1] Extremely online phenomena such as fan culture and reaction GIFs have been described as "swallowing democracy" by bloggers such as Amanda Hess in The New York Times;[6] who claimed that a "great convergence between politics and culture, values and aesthetics, citizenship and commercialism" had become "a dominant mode of experiencing politics".[6] Vulture (formerly the pop culture section of New York magazine, now a stand-alone website) has a section for articles tagged "extremely online".[7] [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extremely_online https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extremely_online
• dotnet00 4y ago
  I think barring especially extreme cases this is just the "television is ruining the world" of our generation. I'd describe myself as terminally online as I spend most of my time using the internet in some form. Regarding use of internet slang, there's the fact that the Covid lockdowns helped accelerate a pretty massive shift in how we interact even with people we can meet in-person. Unless you're living with someone, the bulk of interactions with them are probably going to be online. Then, since you're online you end up using internet slang, which gradually bleeds into regular speech. There is nothing wrong with this. There's also the issue that you're going to want to share your hobbies with people, which is hard without the internet if your hobby is kind of niche. Most of my hobbies are very niche, I have only ever known 1 person irl and 3 people online who had a similar enough set of hobbies. Even programming and working with electronics, which started as a hobby for me when I was 13-14, only developed because of the ability to find like-minded people online, away from my irl 'friend' group who only saw it as something to make fun of me for and parents who didn't believe in anything but schoolwork and perfect grades. Overall, this post seems to be based on the assumption that people who are terminally online haven't put thought into their lives or that it's wrong to be okay with it. I can still unplug when having an interaction irl which I think is sufficiently important like with family (although somewhat ironically, the only way for me to interact with my family over the past 2 years was over the internet), but simultaneously, most of the people I enjoy talking to and can deeply relate to are only accessible online. I get the impression that to the author, "terminally online" is equivalent to being someone who spends all their time getting into heated political arguments on Reddit and Twitter. While I did go through that phase too, I realized how unhappy it was making me and the solution wasn't disconnecting but rather identifying sources of bad content and disengaging. I got rid of all the default subs on Reddit, sticking only to ones related to my hobbies and being very selective about following more subs, same with Twitter. I also got much more selective about replying to things (eg I'll usually just ignore replies to my posts which I feel might devolve into an argument). The result was that the content that made me "ragescroll" went away and I got happier.
• throwaway1146 4y ago
  I don't know if HN is a good place for personal advice like this; I have grown severely paranoid about what has happened around social media. I watched.. a conversation unfold in 2012. I thought at the time that I needed to de-escalate it. It kept escalating as I kept looking for a way to talk to the people involved. And, to my own perception, it grew into and took over the entire 'national conversation' that was happening here in the years that followed. I now have panic attacks whenever I see the words / phrases / jargon / ideas I watched form 'here'. I often have severe enough psychological issues that I just disconnect from everything and repeat the question "who are you people" to myself. Especially as my suspicions of what it was that had spread from that day in 2012 grew to... everything people say/think/do. I'm not sure what way I could move forward. I've been trying, with minimal success, to write down in long form what I saw happen. I've largely lost the emotional wherewithal for it. I tried reaching out to old friends for advice, which shows I've lost contact with everyone enough that I can't. I was terminally online before this all happened, and don't really know how to meet people away from here. Or if I would find the same things, and shut down again. I do know that my paranoia extends to people I see in real life. The past 1 year has pushed me into a constant fear of everyone, online and off. Not sure if getting away from the internet would help now.
  • picture 4y ago
    I can't understand what you're saying, but I get that this may be a stressful topic so you are being vague. From what I see, it might be a good idea to look for some professional help if this is debilitating paranoia.
    • throwaway1146 4y ago
      Thanks. I suppose I am being a bit too vague over all; In terms of what it is I've grown paranoid about, it's mostly subjectively / paranoid-ly that I said 'everything'. Resolving that was a major goal I had for trying to write personal journals about this. The other side of that is the more personal: I've lost basically all of my friends, and struggle to talk to my parents. While my emotional issues are getting in the way of trying to write out what I've grown fearful of, I also don't really know how to get in contact with anyone. That was where this post sounded relevant to me. Moving on from a rank paranoia via internet might require first rebuilding my personal / social life somewhat, so I have something to fall back on. And doing so is blocked by that very paranoia and emotional issues. Catch-22. Being terminally online as I am, may be a help or a hindrance to trying to escape that.
• tayo42 4y ago
  I feel like I'm on online alot, but didn't really relate to alot of those questions.
• gxs 4y ago
  My biggest problem right now isn’t online per se, rather it’s a video game. Any ideas as to how to deal with it?
• derefr 4y ago
  > find a hobby // i don't mean this derisively, i promise. if you use social media to kill time, try putting that time into something else - maybe something you've always wanted to do. always wanted to cook? look up a recipe and start. I believe the author (and many other people giving this advice) are naive to the difference between “free time with mental energy to burn” — where a hobby is definitely the right answer — and “free time where you’ve already used all your mental energy for the day.” 50 years ago, someone who was mentally drained by evening-time would be “vegetating in front of the TV.” Today they’re “doomscrolling.” In both cases it’s not that they’re addicted to a certain behavior, but rather that this behavior is one of the only pastimes available to them in their current environmental context that can be executed when fully cognitively fatigued, and yet not tired enough to sleep. I say “in their current environmental context” because living in certain places (e.g. most cities, suburbs) limits your options. In more rural areas, you can just go out for a long walk in nature, or spontaneously go fishing. In communities that are safe, walkable, and socially well-connected, you can go to a {cafe, park, mall, bar, community centre, church, …} and run into friends rather than strangers, and just hang out shooting the breeze until you get tired. But many people alive today are in environments where they have none of those options. They have to come up with a braindead pastime that can be done both alone and indoors. We didn’t evolve to do well in this situation! Anything you pick is going to end up not being very good for you! (Before anyone suggests “reading” — you’re underestimating the level of cognitive fatigue many people reach. If you have enough mental energy at the end of the day to concentrate on reading a good book and getting the full effect of it — as opposed to having a good book just slide past you, or reading “junk food” op-ed blogposts — that’s great for you, but that amount of mental energy would also be sufficient to cook or practice an instrument. Reading — the kind that actually enriches your mind — is a hobby, not a pastime!)
  • thebigspacefuck 4y ago
    I find when I’m really exhausted, I stay up late looking at my phone and it feeds the cycle. If I read a book in bed I get relaxed, fall asleep, and feel rested. Looking at the phone could be the same as TV 50 years ago for some people but I’ve never fallen asleep looking at my phone and I often fall asleep watching TV. I’ve come to the conclusion the best thing to do when I’m tired is get off the phone and go to sleep. Sometimes I don’t realize how tired I am until I realize I’m spending more and more time on the phone. A sleep tracker was really helpful for identifying this but I don’t have one anymore.
• mdrzn 4y ago
  Wasn't expecting to see a Jerma985 reference in this, too bad the video link is broken (video unavailable).