5 ms·

The Macbook "Brick"

43 points by ojbyrne 18y ago

TweedHeads 18y ago
For those who are being fooled into this nonsense, the "brick" is a new and smaller mac mini without dvd drive. Shhh, I could get fired if they know I told you.
LPTS 18y ago
I was hoping the code name brick would refer to something you throw through windows to break them. The first 21st century telepathically assisted alien technology computer factory is pretty good too though.
131072 18y ago
That article is a little garbled. What it seems to be saying is that Apple is going to CNC machine MacBook cases from a solid block instead of stamping (or maybe even hydroforming) them. This seems like an incomplete part of the story, since it would be near-impossible to CNC machine aluminum to the very thin dimensions they currently have with their stamped cases. It would also be very difficult to machine a block with the dimensions of a MacBook so that the innards are hollow, reducing the number of seams and fasteners. A great deal of scrap would be produced in the form of aluminum chips, which do not recycle well because the high surface area means there is a lot of aluminum oxide to deal with. Water jets and laser cutters are in common usage and one or other has probably been used to cut the blanks or trim the finished case parts since the titanium powerbook. They are also excellent for parts like the bezel on the front of the MBP screen. They are not generally used to carve 3D shapes - that is done by a CNC mill, which resembles a big drill bit that can move in three dimensions if you haven't seen one. To stamp a MBP case would take seconds - CNC machining one from solid might keep a 7-figure machine occupied for several minutes. Water jets and lasers generally blow a hole right through whatever they are pointed at, limiting their usage to cutting flat sheets or trimming the edges from stamped parts. If this article is true, I think we are more likely to see more elaborate internal bracing or complex case designs from Apple. The innards of a MBP are fairly prosaic and complex machining could be used to improve airflow and allow components to be packed closer together. Aluminum could also be strategically placed in more complex shapes to help conduct heat out of the case. But when you manufacture parts by the million, casting the parts then finish-machining them may be more efficient, since the need to tie up expensive machines is reduced. Perhaps this is a strategy to get out of the 'just like every other laptop but with OSX' trap and maintain their competitive advantage in 'design' now that their competitors are starting to lift their game. Also, aircraft-grade aluminum doesn't really mean anything. There are many different grades with different purposes, many of which are in common use in all kinds of relatively mundane applications. No doubt the current MacBook Pros are made from 'aircraft grade aluminum', but coke cans probably are too. It sounds like some juicy info has unfortunately been filtered through one or two levels of people who aren't familiar with machine tool jargon. It would be very interesting to hear more details. If you want to play with these machines yourself, check out emachineshop.com - a cool startup if ever there was one.
- ojbyrne 18y ago
  http://emachineshop.com http://emachineshop.com looks seriously cool. One of those ideas that you just assumed someone else had already done.
- mhb 18y ago
  That's interesting about the relative recycling value of chips vs. blocks. Is it possible to keep the chips covered in coolant to prevent oxidation if it is known that the aluminum is going to be remelted?
  - 131072 18y ago
    I had a look and found this: http://www.ars-inc.com/ROI.htm http://www.ars-inc.com/ROI.htm Still, buying expensive aluminum billets and then turning ~99% of the material into chips as would happen with a case design similar to the current MBP wouldn't be very efficient. Perhaps they are moving to case designs that are a combination of CNC machined parts and stamped pieces? I'm sure Apple's design team is a lot more imaginative than me. There are some CNC-looking parts in the current MBP like the bracket that fixes the HD in place. But let's face facts. Steve will not rest until he is selling Cube shaped computers again. :)
alaskamiller 18y ago
I like 9to5Mac the best out of all the other rumor sites. They definitely have some good relationships with Apple employees since I've seen corp info (both real and fake) leak multiple times.
- quasimojo 18y ago
  GO BACK TO VALLEYWAG
  - unalone 18y ago
    I might be a patsy for saying this, but you're not serious, are you? Valleywag has the highest ratio of noise to signal of any site that I've seen - with the exception of the other sites in the Gawker portfolio. I try to avoid that entire branch of blogs unless I've got good reason to, or unless I'm recommended one article in particular.
  - alaskamiller 18y ago
    lol
mattmaroon 18y ago
I thought this article was going to be about my cofounder's MBP. It, too, has been nicknamed the Macbook Brick, but for a much different reason.
- unalone 18y ago
  Why has it been, then?
  - mattmaroon 18y ago
    Because it's been in and out of the Apple store ever since he bought it, and generally is about as functional as a brick.
    - bk 18y ago
      I can painfully relate. One of my computers was called the Crapple (dual inherited from cripple and crap). I've owned four Apple computers (ibook G3, ibook G4, imac G5, macbook), and despite skipping first revisions and treating my computers very well, every single one of them has had several minor defects and all my notebooks have broken completely within a 3 year time frame. In my personal experience, Apple is a hardware bimbo - pretty but useless. I only come back for OS X, which is the nicest desktop 'nix. I wish apple were still apple computers, not apple media. I'm waiting for the next mb/mbp's, but if anyone has tips for alternatives, I'd love to hear them.
      - qqq 18y ago
        Anecdotal evidence is not important. Quality control needs to be observed over a large sample size.
        unalone 18y ago
        That's what I came here to post. Seeing as within my college I've observed no laptop breakdowns, I think that Apple's still doing a pretty damn good job with quality control within my frame of reference. Meanwhile, a friend's HP notebook has broken down twice in the last year. Not saying that my point of view is any more accurate than yours, but... you can't use a single frame of reference and decide that it's the most accurate. Gruber wrote about this a little while ago: after TechCrunch wrote that Apple had slipped from a 96% customer satisfaction rate to something in the 80s. His point was that yes, Apple had slipped, but it was still by far at the absolute top of the chain. I asked my question kind of expecting the answer, but here's my two cents anyway: I really don't think that your original comment, or this entire chain of comments, really added to the thread at all. I've noticed a thread of people who'll enter any Apple thread just to bash Apple, and I think it's slightly annoying. I don't think I've seen anything on the Linux side going the other way, though I've seen people doing it to Windows articles and that's an annoyance too. Considering how high quality HN is usually, can't we decide to give it a rest and only add things to threads when they're relevant?
noonespecial 18y ago
A 12" x 12" x 1.5" block of aluminum costs more than $200. Not a very efficient method of making a computer case. I think maybe the article might be missing a few details!
- jws 18y ago
  216 cubic inches, 0.098 lb/cu in, 21 pounds. Aluminum is running about $1/pound. That sounds like $20 to me. I think they can find room to bury that in the price tag. You could spend around $200 to buy a single 12"x12" plate from a metal retailer on line, but I think Apple would buy in volume. Actual volume of a macbook is 123 cubic inches, so it is even less. I suppose I could be wildly wrong about the price of whatever alloy they are using.
  - noonespecial 18y ago
    That looks like the current scrap price. Its at about $.80 at this very moment, down from a high of $1.10 earlier this year. Pure alloys (not mixed and cast by melting scrap), even common ones like 6061 still seem to be $5-$10/pound even in large quantities. If you know of a way to get 61 or 52 for less than that we would greatly appreciate the tip.
    - tesseract 18y ago
      The only way I can think of that this might possibly make economic sense is if they've figured out how to get the waste in the form of large cut-out chunks of metal, rather than chips that oxidize substantially, and can recycle it on site (presumably fairly straightforward, since all the scrap is known to be of the desired alloy composition already).
    - jws 18y ago
      I just talked to an automotive manufacturer, ok, my brother. He is paying about $1.60 a pound for 6000 series aluminum extrusions. It was higher but is headed down. I think the price works.
      - 18y ago
mhb 18y ago
And this is what it will look like being made: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=323877 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=323877
quasimojo 18y ago
haha keep chasing the "high end" apple. you'd think losing 50% share price would shake some sense into you. let me summarize: 2008: COMPUTERS ARE DISPOSABLE you need to start thinking about $399 laptops, not $3999 laptops what do i or anyone else really care if the laptop case is designed to last a decade? i am going to be using this thing 24 months, not 24 years apple's competitors would be stupid to chase this pointless luxury. users don't know and don't care about better cases
- jlouis 18y ago
  You are wrong. I generally buy a new laptop every 3 years. I tend to buy a bit up the curve and get 1.5 years where the beast is fast, one year where the beast is "adequate" and half a year where the beast is "slow". To me, it is not about performance in laptops. It is about keyboard stability, robustness and weight. I have a blindingly fast desktop-computer and my laptop is for when I am not at home or when I want to hack code in the recliner. I don't need prime performance for that.
  - quasimojo 18y ago
    i can safely say that you, seeking not performance but "keybaord stability" in a laptop, are a market of one. its so sad to see the fanbois try to justify their iSlavery, almost like a battered wife telling the judge she reaaaallyyyy stiiiill loooooves hiiiim.
    - orib 18y ago
      I also look for a good keyboard in a laptop before I look at most other factors. This has kept me with Thinkpads until recently, and now I'm on a Fujitsu T2010.
    - jlouis 18y ago
      The advice I consistently give people when buying laptops is: Remember that you can't change the hardware. If you hate a trackpad, you will be stuck with it. If you hate the keyboard: though luck. Too slow a CPU? oh god, no chance in hell you'll be able to change it. I write code and analyze problems for a living. Hence, my need for a fast CPU is not that important as I spend most of the time in emacs and use languages that can compile fast. Do we happen to be a minority? Perhaps so. Had I been a media executive, then my priorities would probably not be on the keyboard at all but on how much RAM i could cram into the beast. Apple is selling a brand as much as they are selling a laptop and an OS. Notice that the marketing focuses on what you can do with an apple mac. They know how much you are buying an identity for your money in addition to a computer. The Apple marketing is primary recruitment unit for the "fanbois" you mention because what they can do with the Macs matter to them. If you look at Lenovo's sales pitches, you will see an entirely different focus as they are targeting a different user base. And for the record: jlouis@succubus:~$ uname -a Linux succubus 2.6.27-4-generic #1 SMP Wed Sep 24 01:30:51 UTC 2008 i686 GNU/Linux jlouis@succubus:~$ dmesg | grep thinkpad_acpi | grep model [ 26.622322] thinkpad_acpi: IBM ThinkPad X40, model 23716EG

43 points by ojbyrne 18y ago

For those who are being fooled into this nonsense, the "brick" is a new and smaller mac mini without dvd drive. Shhh, I could get fired if they know I told you.

LPTS 18y ago

I was hoping the code name brick would refer to something you throw through windows to break them. The first 21st century telepathically assisted alien technology computer factory is pretty good too though.

131072 18y ago

That article is a little garbled. What it seems to be saying is that Apple is going to CNC machine MacBook cases from a solid block instead of stamping (or maybe even hydroforming) them. This seems like an incomplete part of the story, since it would be near-impossible to CNC machine aluminum to the very thin dimensions they currently have with their stamped cases. It would also be very difficult to machine a block with the dimensions of a MacBook so that the innards are hollow, reducing the number of seams and fasteners. A great deal of scrap would be produced in the form of aluminum chips, which do not recycle well because the high surface area means there is a lot of aluminum oxide to deal with. Water jets and laser cutters are in common usage and one or other has probably been used to cut the blanks or trim the finished case parts since the titanium powerbook. They are also excellent for parts like the bezel on the front of the MBP screen. They are not generally used to carve 3D shapes - that is done by a CNC mill, which resembles a big drill bit that can move in three dimensions if you haven't seen one. To stamp a MBP case would take seconds - CNC machining one from solid might keep a 7-figure machine occupied for several minutes. Water jets and lasers generally blow a hole right through whatever they are pointed at, limiting their usage to cutting flat sheets or trimming the edges from stamped parts. If this article is true, I think we are more likely to see more elaborate internal bracing or complex case designs from Apple. The innards of a MBP are fairly prosaic and complex machining could be used to improve airflow and allow components to be packed closer together. Aluminum could also be strategically placed in more complex shapes to help conduct heat out of the case. But when you manufacture parts by the million, casting the parts then finish-machining them may be more efficient, since the need to tie up expensive machines is reduced. Perhaps this is a strategy to get out of the 'just like every other laptop but with OSX' trap and maintain their competitive advantage in 'design' now that their competitors are starting to lift their game. Also, aircraft-grade aluminum doesn't really mean anything. There are many different grades with different purposes, many of which are in common use in all kinds of relatively mundane applications. No doubt the current MacBook Pros are made from 'aircraft grade aluminum', but coke cans probably are too. It sounds like some juicy info has unfortunately been filtered through one or two levels of people who aren't familiar with machine tool jargon. It would be very interesting to hear more details. If you want to play with these machines yourself, check out emachineshop.com - a cool startup if ever there was one.

ojbyrne 18y ago
http://emachineshop.com http://emachineshop.com looks seriously cool. One of those ideas that you just assumed someone else had already done.
mhb 18y ago
That's interesting about the relative recycling value of chips vs. blocks. Is it possible to keep the chips covered in coolant to prevent oxidation if it is known that the aluminum is going to be remelted?
- 131072 18y ago
  I had a look and found this: http://www.ars-inc.com/ROI.htm http://www.ars-inc.com/ROI.htm Still, buying expensive aluminum billets and then turning ~99% of the material into chips as would happen with a case design similar to the current MBP wouldn't be very efficient. Perhaps they are moving to case designs that are a combination of CNC machined parts and stamped pieces? I'm sure Apple's design team is a lot more imaginative than me. There are some CNC-looking parts in the current MBP like the bracket that fixes the HD in place. But let's face facts. Steve will not rest until he is selling Cube shaped computers again. :)

alaskamiller 18y ago

I like 9to5Mac the best out of all the other rumor sites. They definitely have some good relationships with Apple employees since I've seen corp info (both real and fake) leak multiple times.

quasimojo 18y ago
GO BACK TO VALLEYWAG
- unalone 18y ago
  I might be a patsy for saying this, but you're not serious, are you? Valleywag has the highest ratio of noise to signal of any site that I've seen - with the exception of the other sites in the Gawker portfolio. I try to avoid that entire branch of blogs unless I've got good reason to, or unless I'm recommended one article in particular.
- alaskamiller 18y ago
  lol

mattmaroon 18y ago

I thought this article was going to be about my cofounder's MBP. It, too, has been nicknamed the Macbook Brick, but for a much different reason.

unalone 18y ago
Why has it been, then?
- mattmaroon 18y ago
  Because it's been in and out of the Apple store ever since he bought it, and generally is about as functional as a brick.
  - bk 18y ago
    I can painfully relate. One of my computers was called the Crapple (dual inherited from cripple and crap). I've owned four Apple computers (ibook G3, ibook G4, imac G5, macbook), and despite skipping first revisions and treating my computers very well, every single one of them has had several minor defects and all my notebooks have broken completely within a 3 year time frame. In my personal experience, Apple is a hardware bimbo - pretty but useless. I only come back for OS X, which is the nicest desktop 'nix. I wish apple were still apple computers, not apple media. I'm waiting for the next mb/mbp's, but if anyone has tips for alternatives, I'd love to hear them.
    - qqq 18y ago
      Anecdotal evidence is not important. Quality control needs to be observed over a large sample size.
      - unalone 18y ago
        That's what I came here to post. Seeing as within my college I've observed no laptop breakdowns, I think that Apple's still doing a pretty damn good job with quality control within my frame of reference. Meanwhile, a friend's HP notebook has broken down twice in the last year. Not saying that my point of view is any more accurate than yours, but... you can't use a single frame of reference and decide that it's the most accurate. Gruber wrote about this a little while ago: after TechCrunch wrote that Apple had slipped from a 96% customer satisfaction rate to something in the 80s. His point was that yes, Apple had slipped, but it was still by far at the absolute top of the chain. I asked my question kind of expecting the answer, but here's my two cents anyway: I really don't think that your original comment, or this entire chain of comments, really added to the thread at all. I've noticed a thread of people who'll enter any Apple thread just to bash Apple, and I think it's slightly annoying. I don't think I've seen anything on the Linux side going the other way, though I've seen people doing it to Windows articles and that's an annoyance too. Considering how high quality HN is usually, can't we decide to give it a rest and only add things to threads when they're relevant?

noonespecial 18y ago

A 12" x 12" x 1.5" block of aluminum costs more than $200. Not a very efficient method of making a computer case. I think maybe the article might be missing a few details!

jws 18y ago
216 cubic inches, 0.098 lb/cu in, 21 pounds. Aluminum is running about $1/pound. That sounds like $20 to me. I think they can find room to bury that in the price tag. You could spend around $200 to buy a single 12"x12" plate from a metal retailer on line, but I think Apple would buy in volume. Actual volume of a macbook is 123 cubic inches, so it is even less. I suppose I could be wildly wrong about the price of whatever alloy they are using.
- noonespecial 18y ago
  That looks like the current scrap price. Its at about $.80 at this very moment, down from a high of $1.10 earlier this year. Pure alloys (not mixed and cast by melting scrap), even common ones like 6061 still seem to be $5-$10/pound even in large quantities. If you know of a way to get 61 or 52 for less than that we would greatly appreciate the tip.
  - tesseract 18y ago
    The only way I can think of that this might possibly make economic sense is if they've figured out how to get the waste in the form of large cut-out chunks of metal, rather than chips that oxidize substantially, and can recycle it on site (presumably fairly straightforward, since all the scrap is known to be of the desired alloy composition already).
  - jws 18y ago
    I just talked to an automotive manufacturer, ok, my brother. He is paying about $1.60 a pound for 6000 series aluminum extrusions. It was higher but is headed down. I think the price works.
    - 18y ago

mhb 18y ago

And this is what it will look like being made: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=323877 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=323877

quasimojo 18y ago

haha keep chasing the "high end" apple. you'd think losing 50% share price would shake some sense into you. let me summarize: 2008: COMPUTERS ARE DISPOSABLE you need to start thinking about $399 laptops, not $3999 laptops what do i or anyone else really care if the laptop case is designed to last a decade? i am going to be using this thing 24 months, not 24 years apple's competitors would be stupid to chase this pointless luxury. users don't know and don't care about better cases

jlouis 18y ago
You are wrong. I generally buy a new laptop every 3 years. I tend to buy a bit up the curve and get 1.5 years where the beast is fast, one year where the beast is "adequate" and half a year where the beast is "slow". To me, it is not about performance in laptops. It is about keyboard stability, robustness and weight. I have a blindingly fast desktop-computer and my laptop is for when I am not at home or when I want to hack code in the recliner. I don't need prime performance for that.
- quasimojo 18y ago
  i can safely say that you, seeking not performance but "keybaord stability" in a laptop, are a market of one. its so sad to see the fanbois try to justify their iSlavery, almost like a battered wife telling the judge she reaaaallyyyy stiiiill loooooves hiiiim.
  - orib 18y ago
    I also look for a good keyboard in a laptop before I look at most other factors. This has kept me with Thinkpads until recently, and now I'm on a Fujitsu T2010.
  - jlouis 18y ago
    The advice I consistently give people when buying laptops is: Remember that you can't change the hardware. If you hate a trackpad, you will be stuck with it. If you hate the keyboard: though luck. Too slow a CPU? oh god, no chance in hell you'll be able to change it. I write code and analyze problems for a living. Hence, my need for a fast CPU is not that important as I spend most of the time in emacs and use languages that can compile fast. Do we happen to be a minority? Perhaps so. Had I been a media executive, then my priorities would probably not be on the keyboard at all but on how much RAM i could cram into the beast. Apple is selling a brand as much as they are selling a laptop and an OS. Notice that the marketing focuses on what you can do with an apple mac. They know how much you are buying an identity for your money in addition to a computer. The Apple marketing is primary recruitment unit for the "fanbois" you mention because what they can do with the Macs matter to them. If you look at Lenovo's sales pitches, you will see an entirely different focus as they are targeting a different user base. And for the record: jlouis@succubus:~$ uname -a Linux succubus 2.6.27-4-generic #1 SMP Wed Sep 24 01:30:51 UTC 2008 i686 GNU/Linux jlouis@succubus:~$ dmesg | grep thinkpad_acpi | grep model [ 26.622322] thinkpad_acpi: IBM ThinkPad X40, model 23716EG