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Maybe beaten to death at this point, but Android is a Linux. Anything running on the Linux kernel is a Linux. You can be a Linux distro without using a GNU envi

Maybe beaten to death at this point, but Android is a Linux. Anything running on the Linux kernel is a Linux. You can be a Linux distro without using a GNU environment. There are plenty of buildroot/musl embedded environments out there with no GNU software in them that we call Linux.

coldtea 4y ago
>Maybe beaten to death at this point, but Android is a Linux. Yes, but that's neither here, not there. When people say Linux in this context they don't mean Android with the Linux kernel, they mean traditional distros of Linux + GNU userland.
- dijit 4y ago
  Sometimes, but I'd wager we lack terminology for "Linux on the desktop" and we just cram everything into one box. FWIW you can run Android on a desktop; you can run ChromeOS too.. those are both linux. But you also have; GNOME+Linux, KDE+Linux, i3wm/sway+Linux. Each of those are so wildly different as to be effectively different operating systems; people are not interacting with the kernel directly and normal users are not interacting with the Command-line in an effective way either. (and even if they were the the differences between distros and window managers would make it different enough that it could only be tangially related really). Yeah, Android isn't a "real linux", but, part of the issue is that nothing is "real linux": it's a choose your own adventure story and that's why most people think we're all stuck-up when they try a distro and we tell them that they used the wrong one or to keep sticking it out. It's contrived; if Android can do the job of a desktop replacement (which, it can, there are desktop modes), then why isn't it a real linux?
  - coldtea 4y ago
    >Yeah, Android isn't a "real linux", but, part of the issue is that nothing is "real linux" (...) It's contrived; if Android can do the job of a desktop replacement (which, it can, there are desktop modes), then why isn't it a real linux? When people say "Linux on the desktop" (assuming they are not being pedants, using it for anything with a Linux kernel that runs on a desktop class machine, e.g. that they'd include Windows if MS replaced the kernel with vmlinux) they don't go for etymological or technical compliance with the term. They just mean (casually, not as in "real Linux" purity) a family of Linux-derived distros that might even include a company-made desktop environment (e.g. Mint) but do not include Android. So, phrase-wise this is not as much about having some attributes checked (runs Linux kernel, check, has GNU userland, check, it runs on desktop machines, check), it's more about belonging to a club. Most people saying "Linux on the desktop" don't want to admit Android in that club. Partly it goes back to the era of the original "Linux on the Desktop" dream 20+ years ago, where the term meant Linux distros taking over from Windows and Mac, and was associated with FOSS, freedom, bazaar style development, community, and so on, winning over proprietary OSes.
- fsflover 4y ago
  I don't understand why people go to such a great length to avoid saying GNU/Linux, even if it makes their words unclear.
  - clemens3 4y ago
    You mean GNU/XOrg/Linux..
    - fsflover 4y ago
      This is one of the many questions that are answered long time ago: https://www.gnu.org/gnu/gnu-linux-faq.html#many https://www.gnu.org/gnu/gnu-linux-faq.html#many.
olliej 4y ago
The article directly states that it is aware of this, and it is talking about actual distributions of linux in the sense that "desktop" makes sense. It's very clear about it, very early on. That's also not a super useful argument in the context of desktop readiness.
pjmlp 4y ago
Go ask the Termux guys (and girls), how much fun they are having with Android's Linux experience. The Linux kernel is not part of the official Android API surface for app developers, only for OEMs. Anything that works, is out of sheer luck, might work only on specific devices, or be killed by Zygote and system linker, when the application tries to be naughty and steer away from the official Java/Kotlin/NDK APIs. Termux is stuck on Android 9 compatibility, until they are no longer allowed to publish such old API level on the store.
- ducktective 4y ago
  >Termux is stuck on Android 9 compatibility, until they are no longer allowed to publish such old API level on the store. I think they've already discontinued support for Google play and ask users to install Termux from F-Droid.
  - pjmlp 4y ago
    Eventually that will only work on rooted devices, as most of it is enforced at OS level.
itvision 4y ago
> Android is a Linux Android has 0 to do with Linux. No glibc, gcc, glib, no Xorg/Wayland, no most Linux services/daemons. The only thing that's common between them is the kernel. Well, the kernel alone is bloody useless. Also, Google intends to replace the Linux kernel in Android with Zircon and has already done so for some of its devices. Secondly, show me the people who use Android as their desktop OS. All the 10 of them in the entire world.

coldtea 4y ago

>Maybe beaten to death at this point, but Android is a Linux. Yes, but that's neither here, not there. When people say Linux in this context they don't mean Android with the Linux kernel, they mean traditional distros of Linux + GNU userland.

dijit 4y ago
Sometimes, but I'd wager we lack terminology for "Linux on the desktop" and we just cram everything into one box. FWIW you can run Android on a desktop; you can run ChromeOS too.. those are both linux. But you also have; GNOME+Linux, KDE+Linux, i3wm/sway+Linux. Each of those are so wildly different as to be effectively different operating systems; people are not interacting with the kernel directly and normal users are not interacting with the Command-line in an effective way either. (and even if they were the the differences between distros and window managers would make it different enough that it could only be tangially related really). Yeah, Android isn't a "real linux", but, part of the issue is that nothing is "real linux": it's a choose your own adventure story and that's why most people think we're all stuck-up when they try a distro and we tell them that they used the wrong one or to keep sticking it out. It's contrived; if Android can do the job of a desktop replacement (which, it can, there are desktop modes), then why isn't it a real linux?
- coldtea 4y ago
  >Yeah, Android isn't a "real linux", but, part of the issue is that nothing is "real linux" (...) It's contrived; if Android can do the job of a desktop replacement (which, it can, there are desktop modes), then why isn't it a real linux? When people say "Linux on the desktop" (assuming they are not being pedants, using it for anything with a Linux kernel that runs on a desktop class machine, e.g. that they'd include Windows if MS replaced the kernel with vmlinux) they don't go for etymological or technical compliance with the term. They just mean (casually, not as in "real Linux" purity) a family of Linux-derived distros that might even include a company-made desktop environment (e.g. Mint) but do not include Android. So, phrase-wise this is not as much about having some attributes checked (runs Linux kernel, check, has GNU userland, check, it runs on desktop machines, check), it's more about belonging to a club. Most people saying "Linux on the desktop" don't want to admit Android in that club. Partly it goes back to the era of the original "Linux on the Desktop" dream 20+ years ago, where the term meant Linux distros taking over from Windows and Mac, and was associated with FOSS, freedom, bazaar style development, community, and so on, winning over proprietary OSes.
fsflover 4y ago
I don't understand why people go to such a great length to avoid saying GNU/Linux, even if it makes their words unclear.
- clemens3 4y ago
  You mean GNU/XOrg/Linux..
  - fsflover 4y ago
    This is one of the many questions that are answered long time ago: https://www.gnu.org/gnu/gnu-linux-faq.html#many https://www.gnu.org/gnu/gnu-linux-faq.html#many.

olliej 4y ago

The article directly states that it is aware of this, and it is talking about actual distributions of linux in the sense that "desktop" makes sense. It's very clear about it, very early on. That's also not a super useful argument in the context of desktop readiness.

pjmlp 4y ago

Go ask the Termux guys (and girls), how much fun they are having with Android's Linux experience. The Linux kernel is not part of the official Android API surface for app developers, only for OEMs. Anything that works, is out of sheer luck, might work only on specific devices, or be killed by Zygote and system linker, when the application tries to be naughty and steer away from the official Java/Kotlin/NDK APIs. Termux is stuck on Android 9 compatibility, until they are no longer allowed to publish such old API level on the store.

ducktective 4y ago
>Termux is stuck on Android 9 compatibility, until they are no longer allowed to publish such old API level on the store. I think they've already discontinued support for Google play and ask users to install Termux from F-Droid.
- pjmlp 4y ago
  Eventually that will only work on rooted devices, as most of it is enforced at OS level.

itvision 4y ago

> Android is a Linux Android has 0 to do with Linux. No glibc, gcc, glib, no Xorg/Wayland, no most Linux services/daemons. The only thing that's common between them is the kernel. Well, the kernel alone is bloody useless. Also, Google intends to replace the Linux kernel in Android with Zircon and has already done so for some of its devices. Secondly, show me the people who use Android as their desktop OS. All the 10 of them in the entire world.