5 ms·

Call me old fashioned but I expect games to come on physical media, be able to enjoy multiplayer on a LAN and be able to enjoy them long after the company who c

Call me old fashioned but I expect games to come on physical media, be able to enjoy multiplayer on a LAN and be able to enjoy them long after the company who created them is gone.

onion2k 4y ago
Ignoring everything else, making millions of plastic discs and transporting them to people is incredibly bad for the planet. I wouldn't be at all surprised if a DVD of a game has a carbon footprint several thousand times greater than the digital equivalent. As much as I dislike companies having the ability to revoke licenses and ownership, the climate impact of physical media means they should remain firmly in the past.
- SamuelAdams 4y ago
  Also DVDs don’t last forever. Some sources say they last 10-30 years, depending on the manufacturer and quality. I’m more curious about why people think things ought to be preserved forever at all costs? I’m sure there are many video games from the 70’s and 80’s that have been forgotten.
JZerf 4y ago
I'd also add that distributing an installation file that requires no activation server is also sufficient. Physical media is getting kind of dated as seen by many devices no longer even including optical drives.
- autoexec 4y ago
  > Physical media is getting kind of dated as seen by many devices no longer even including optical drives. the lack of optical drives in consoles isn't because the tech is 'dated' it's because forcing users to online-only and preventing players from owning physical media they can let their friends borrow or sell used makes more money for gaming companies and gives them greater opportunity to collect your data and push ads at you. It gives them greater control to censor, patch, and remove content too.
  - Ken_At_EM 4y ago
    It sure does. Greater control, lower costs! What’s the downside?
  - JZerf 4y ago
    All of the reasons you gave for removing optical drives are true for consoles but I'd also like to point out that even desktop and laptop manufacturers have been removing optical drives as well. The reasons you gave largely do not apply to computer manufacturers yet they have still been removing them. Optical drives aren't needed as much as they used to due to software distribution over the Internet so many computer manufacturers have been removing optical drives to reduce computer prices, make computers smaller, etc...
    - autoexec 4y ago
      It's very much the same problem with the PC. They do make laptops smaller and lighter, and removing them makes them cheaper (DVD/bluray players include the cost of licensing fees), but online distribution of software often provides similar benefits to Apple and Microsoft. They get to push more ads and gain more control when you have to use their marketplaces to get software. Optical drives in computers can also be a nightmare for consumers. Try playing 4k bluray content on your PC for example. It wouldn't be unreasonable for people to complain to Dell that they bought a computer with an optical drive but can't play the media they own without jumping through hoops due to DRM like this: https://www.pcworld.com/article/606652/4k-blu-ray-support-is-dying-on-the-pc-makemkv-can-help.html https://www.pcworld.com/article/606652/4k-blu-ray-support-is... so Dell saves themselves a lot of problems by removing those drives.
- Ken_At_EM 4y ago
  It totally is. I was just being nostalgic.
charcircuit 4y ago
Getting a game via disk is no different from getting a game via the internet. The distribution method doesn't change that you are just getting a license.
- autoexec 4y ago
  > Getting a game via disk is no different from getting a game via the internet. Not true, because publishers or other middlemen can't censor the games that are on my shelf. My shelf also won't remove music from my games after license disputes arise. My shelf doesn't care if my ISP is down or if cloudflare experiences an outage either. If I burn down my shelf, or step on a disk I'm on the hook for replacing the games. Physical media comes with its own vulnerabilities, but at least those are mainly in my control.
  - xboxnolifes 4y ago
    > Not true, because publishers or other middlemen can't censor the games that are on my shelf. Sure they can. Tons of games sold on physical disk only had part of the game on the disk, with the remainder requiring internet access to download. Particularly more recent AAA games that are tens of gigabytes.
    - autoexec 4y ago
      That's not a problem with physical media through, it's a problem with companies who don't actually sell their games on it.
- nullfield 4y ago
  IANAL, but reconsider: Your physical copy retains your first sale doctrine rights, in that you may resell it (or melt it down) without any violation of “applicable laws”. The fact that the companies selling the media make it useless without an account is a different, though absolutely material, discussion. It’s been a slow March, though, from “this is your unsecured audio disc and you can use it and copy it within fair use and sell it if you want”, then DVDs in 1996 with “you can use and play this disc if your hardware with this idiotic, fatally flawed encryption scheme says you can” - quickly amended via the DMCA in 1998 with “well, we meant as long as we and your hardware says you can, and if you break that it’s Bad”, then continuing on to later physical disc formats with other, still idiotic and fatally flawed encryption schemes. You could still sell your disc though, or loan it to your friends. Now? Yeah, it’s all lies about it being a purchase, all the way down. How it would be nice, though, to see a court bitch-slap Amazon and Apple, and force them to facilitate your doctrine of first sale right for the Kindle ebooks and iTunes Store media you “purchased”.
brewdad 4y ago
Even physical media is largely a license check at this point. The last XBOX game I installed came on a disc but then required downloading hundreds of GB before I could play it. The next time I wanted to play, the game wouldn't launch without the disc being inserted, even though all of the files needed were already on the hard drive.

Call me old fashioned but I expect games to come on physical media, be able to enjoy multiplayer on a LAN and be able to enjoy them long after the company who created them is gone.

onion2k 4y ago

Ignoring everything else, making millions of plastic discs and transporting them to people is incredibly bad for the planet. I wouldn't be at all surprised if a DVD of a game has a carbon footprint several thousand times greater than the digital equivalent. As much as I dislike companies having the ability to revoke licenses and ownership, the climate impact of physical media means they should remain firmly in the past.

SamuelAdams 4y ago
Also DVDs don’t last forever. Some sources say they last 10-30 years, depending on the manufacturer and quality. I’m more curious about why people think things ought to be preserved forever at all costs? I’m sure there are many video games from the 70’s and 80’s that have been forgotten.

JZerf 4y ago

I'd also add that distributing an installation file that requires no activation server is also sufficient. Physical media is getting kind of dated as seen by many devices no longer even including optical drives.

autoexec 4y ago
> Physical media is getting kind of dated as seen by many devices no longer even including optical drives. the lack of optical drives in consoles isn't because the tech is 'dated' it's because forcing users to online-only and preventing players from owning physical media they can let their friends borrow or sell used makes more money for gaming companies and gives them greater opportunity to collect your data and push ads at you. It gives them greater control to censor, patch, and remove content too.
- Ken_At_EM 4y ago
  It sure does. Greater control, lower costs! What’s the downside?
- JZerf 4y ago
  All of the reasons you gave for removing optical drives are true for consoles but I'd also like to point out that even desktop and laptop manufacturers have been removing optical drives as well. The reasons you gave largely do not apply to computer manufacturers yet they have still been removing them. Optical drives aren't needed as much as they used to due to software distribution over the Internet so many computer manufacturers have been removing optical drives to reduce computer prices, make computers smaller, etc...
  - autoexec 4y ago
    It's very much the same problem with the PC. They do make laptops smaller and lighter, and removing them makes them cheaper (DVD/bluray players include the cost of licensing fees), but online distribution of software often provides similar benefits to Apple and Microsoft. They get to push more ads and gain more control when you have to use their marketplaces to get software. Optical drives in computers can also be a nightmare for consumers. Try playing 4k bluray content on your PC for example. It wouldn't be unreasonable for people to complain to Dell that they bought a computer with an optical drive but can't play the media they own without jumping through hoops due to DRM like this: https://www.pcworld.com/article/606652/4k-blu-ray-support-is-dying-on-the-pc-makemkv-can-help.html https://www.pcworld.com/article/606652/4k-blu-ray-support-is... so Dell saves themselves a lot of problems by removing those drives.
Ken_At_EM 4y ago
It totally is. I was just being nostalgic.

charcircuit 4y ago

Getting a game via disk is no different from getting a game via the internet. The distribution method doesn't change that you are just getting a license.

autoexec 4y ago
> Getting a game via disk is no different from getting a game via the internet. Not true, because publishers or other middlemen can't censor the games that are on my shelf. My shelf also won't remove music from my games after license disputes arise. My shelf doesn't care if my ISP is down or if cloudflare experiences an outage either. If I burn down my shelf, or step on a disk I'm on the hook for replacing the games. Physical media comes with its own vulnerabilities, but at least those are mainly in my control.
- xboxnolifes 4y ago
  > Not true, because publishers or other middlemen can't censor the games that are on my shelf. Sure they can. Tons of games sold on physical disk only had part of the game on the disk, with the remainder requiring internet access to download. Particularly more recent AAA games that are tens of gigabytes.
  - autoexec 4y ago
    That's not a problem with physical media through, it's a problem with companies who don't actually sell their games on it.
nullfield 4y ago
IANAL, but reconsider: Your physical copy retains your first sale doctrine rights, in that you may resell it (or melt it down) without any violation of “applicable laws”. The fact that the companies selling the media make it useless without an account is a different, though absolutely material, discussion. It’s been a slow March, though, from “this is your unsecured audio disc and you can use it and copy it within fair use and sell it if you want”, then DVDs in 1996 with “you can use and play this disc if your hardware with this idiotic, fatally flawed encryption scheme says you can” - quickly amended via the DMCA in 1998 with “well, we meant as long as we and your hardware says you can, and if you break that it’s Bad”, then continuing on to later physical disc formats with other, still idiotic and fatally flawed encryption schemes. You could still sell your disc though, or loan it to your friends. Now? Yeah, it’s all lies about it being a purchase, all the way down. How it would be nice, though, to see a court bitch-slap Amazon and Apple, and force them to facilitate your doctrine of first sale right for the Kindle ebooks and iTunes Store media you “purchased”.

brewdad 4y ago

Even physical media is largely a license check at this point. The last XBOX game I installed came on a disc but then required downloading hundreds of GB before I could play it. The next time I wanted to play, the game wouldn't launch without the disc being inserted, even though all of the files needed were already on the hard drive.