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> It runs circles around the docker in everything except how much it was adapted by community. ...except? Meh. People who want to engage in this argument are
by ajross 4y ago
> It runs circles around the docker in everything except how much it was adapted by community.
...except?
Meh. People who want to engage in this argument are generally trying to argue about jails vs. the collection of linux container technologies. That's not Docker. Docker won because of Dockerfiles. Docker isn't, at its core, an interesting container technology. Docker is a simple metaphor and programming environment to leverage container technology to solve practical[1] problems.
And as it happened, it was done on Linux and not jails, owing in large part to the more configurable/toolkit-style/policy-free tools available there. Jails were indeed more mature, but they were solving the wrong problem.
[1] Also thorny, boring problems like configuration management of large apps developed piecewise from components and by large teams. The kind of thing that is historically not well served by the operating system, BSD included.
- intothemild 4y agoI love FreeBSD and i love Jails, but you're right. Docker won because of simplicity. Dockerfiles make it super simple. There is similar stuff for jails but you need a jails frontend that use it. A few years ago i wanted to build the Jailfile equivalent, call it Warden, and have Warden manage the jails. But honestly i doubt it would get traction outside a small community.
- Sunspark 4y agoBuild it and they will come..
- throwaway7980 4y agoCBSDfiles, reggae and bastillebsd can all build jails from a file based method
- SoftTalker 4y ago"Simple" is subjective. Have you ever looked at what Docker puts in your iptables? I challenge you to understand what's happening with your networking after that. If you want containers, lxc command line and a bit of configuration for a bridge interface is all you really need.
- ajross 4y ago> If you want containers, [...] is all you really need. And that is the attitude embraced by jails (to be clear: rather more cleanly and attractively than the expression of the same ideas in linux), and precisely why it lost. No one wants "containers". They want docker. They want to be handed something that looks no more threatening than a mid-80's build script and have it magically be it's own little world with all its own software and versions and stuff, but still talk to the rest of the world on the same networks from the same piece of hardware (yes, via some weird voodoo to glue all that together). It's like arguing that no one needs word processing because nroff or LaTeX is all you need. It's not wrong. It's just a failure in the market.
- SoftTalker 4y agoThe voodoo is what bothers me. As the person responsible for the server, when things go wrong I will get blamed. In that situation, I at least want it to be my fault.
- Gordonjcp 4y agoWhat "voodoo"?
- isbvhodnvemrwvn 4y agoStock docker puts entries in your iptables which usually fully bypasses your firewall. try installing docker on stock Ubuntu, run a container with an exposed port, put ifw up blocking all traffic, and the container is still going to be reachable.
- Gordonjcp 4y agoThat's not voodoo, that's perfectly reasonable behaviour. Why are you wasting time with ipfw?
- Gordonjcp 4y ago
- GekkePrutser 4y ago> Dockerfiles make it super simple. There is similar stuff for jails but you need a jails frontend that use it. But docker is just a frontend for linux containers :) You're not comparing the right things here: Linux containers with a popular frontend and all the trimmings, to barebones FreeBSD jails.
- intothemild 4y agoVery true. I did mention that there are similar things with jail frontends, specifically iocage.
- truth_seeker 4y agoMore detailed comparison of Docker Vs Jails : https://www.diva-portal.org/smash/get/diva2:1453017/FULLTEXT01.pdf https://www.diva-portal.org/smash/get/diva2:1453017/FULLTEXT...