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You know what killed nuclear power? The moving targets of the Nuclear Regulatory Commission. Was the NRC out to make life hard for new nuclear power plant cons

You know what killed nuclear power? The moving targets of the Nuclear Regulatory Commission. Was the NRC out to make life hard for new nuclear power plant construction? Some claim that, but I chose to believe that they were just doing their job. As more corner cases were discovered in the operation of the existing power plants, the regulations had to be upgraded to deal with them. This process will continue, that's for sure. But fewer corner cases will be discovered for PWRs than for new technologies. For the reason that in the US the experience with PWR is at least two orders of magnitude higher than with any other nuclear technology. Still, it took Nuscale 6 years to get their approval, 2 million man-hours and half a billion dollars. Whatever estimate they have for the time their first reactor goes online (2030 currently), it might be delayed because of new regulatory changes. But at least they have a proven design. If someone is trying a new design, the chance of delays increases one hundred times. I love new technology. I am personally rooting for the gas cooled fast reactors (like Xe-100) or for the sodium cooled fast reactors (like Terrapower's Natrium). But you need to walk before you run.

formerly_proven 4y ago
> You know what killed nuclear power? The moving targets of the Nuclear Regulatory Commission. Uh, massive political pushback from environmentalists starting in the 70s leading to less nuclear and more fossil fuel plants, because somehow they were (and continue to be in parts of the world) much more strongly and rigidly opposed to NPPs than coal and gas power plants.
- pfdietz 4y ago
  That's not how it actually worked. What killed nuclear in the 1970s was a combination of things. First, NPPs turned out to be more expensive to build than vendors had promised. Second, electricity demand suddenly stopped growing as it had been. Third, PURPA passed, allowing non-utility producers onto the grid (ostensibly for cogeneration, although many were cogeneration in name only.) To the extent regulation bit nuclear, it was because of NEPA, which affects all industry not just nuclear. The AEC has tried pretend this didn't apply to nuclear but the Calvert Cliffs decision at SCOTUS said otherwise. 2+3 together meant utilities suddenly were in an environment where adding new GW capacity was a hard sell to state regulatory boards, and 1 made it even harder. Sure, environmentalists complained about nuclear, but don't infer that just because they complained, they caused nuclear to fail. Correlation != causation.
  - stjohnswarts 4y ago
    3 mile island killed nuclear, no politician from either party wanted to push for it after that. Then Chernobyl happened and any impetus killed again.
    - pfdietz 4y ago
      No, it didn't. TMI came rather late in the game compared to what I was talking about above there.
  - formerly_proven 4y ago
    The nuclear wind-down happened in many Western countries and can't be explained solely by US-specific legislation. The Swedes decided after TMI to not pursue nuclear power. Austria built a reactor and a referendum prevented it from coming online in 1978, with Austria prohibiting nuclear power the same year outright. Spain stopped construction of new NPPs in the 80s because the Socialists were against it. German Konvoi (3rd gen series PWR) was killed for good after Chernobyl, though I grant you it also suffered higher-than-expected costs due to each state having different legal requirements. The only Konvoi plants that went online did so shortly after Chernobyl, because construction was essentially done at that point. Italy shut down their NPPs after Chernobyl and prohibited construction of new plants in '87. etc.
    - natmaka 4y ago
      AFAIK the KONVOI became part of the EPR design, which at the time was the result of a France-Germany association.
- stjohnswarts 4y ago
  Same thing happened in Germany more recently and more rumblings in France as well although they've gone kind of quiet given the unprovoked Russian invasion of Ukraine.

formerly_proven 4y ago

> You know what killed nuclear power? The moving targets of the Nuclear Regulatory Commission. Uh, massive political pushback from environmentalists starting in the 70s leading to less nuclear and more fossil fuel plants, because somehow they were (and continue to be in parts of the world) much more strongly and rigidly opposed to NPPs than coal and gas power plants.

pfdietz 4y ago
That's not how it actually worked. What killed nuclear in the 1970s was a combination of things. First, NPPs turned out to be more expensive to build than vendors had promised. Second, electricity demand suddenly stopped growing as it had been. Third, PURPA passed, allowing non-utility producers onto the grid (ostensibly for cogeneration, although many were cogeneration in name only.) To the extent regulation bit nuclear, it was because of NEPA, which affects all industry not just nuclear. The AEC has tried pretend this didn't apply to nuclear but the Calvert Cliffs decision at SCOTUS said otherwise. 2+3 together meant utilities suddenly were in an environment where adding new GW capacity was a hard sell to state regulatory boards, and 1 made it even harder. Sure, environmentalists complained about nuclear, but don't infer that just because they complained, they caused nuclear to fail. Correlation != causation.
- stjohnswarts 4y ago
  3 mile island killed nuclear, no politician from either party wanted to push for it after that. Then Chernobyl happened and any impetus killed again.
  - pfdietz 4y ago
    No, it didn't. TMI came rather late in the game compared to what I was talking about above there.
- formerly_proven 4y ago
  The nuclear wind-down happened in many Western countries and can't be explained solely by US-specific legislation. The Swedes decided after TMI to not pursue nuclear power. Austria built a reactor and a referendum prevented it from coming online in 1978, with Austria prohibiting nuclear power the same year outright. Spain stopped construction of new NPPs in the 80s because the Socialists were against it. German Konvoi (3rd gen series PWR) was killed for good after Chernobyl, though I grant you it also suffered higher-than-expected costs due to each state having different legal requirements. The only Konvoi plants that went online did so shortly after Chernobyl, because construction was essentially done at that point. Italy shut down their NPPs after Chernobyl and prohibited construction of new plants in '87. etc.
  - natmaka 4y ago
    AFAIK the KONVOI became part of the EPR design, which at the time was the result of a France-Germany association.
stjohnswarts 4y ago
Same thing happened in Germany more recently and more rumblings in France as well although they've gone kind of quiet given the unprovoked Russian invasion of Ukraine.