7 ms·

You don't own your games on steam, uplay, or any other drm filled service. If you want to own your games, get used to either having old games and going to flea

You don't own your games on steam, uplay, or any other drm filled service. If you want to own your games, get used to either having old games and going to flea markets to find them, or buy from GOG. I've made a deliberate and purposeful shift to buy my games from GOG for this reason. Except for a stupid prank ( https://www.criticalhit.net/gaming/breaking-gog-com-shuts-down-we-investigate/ https://www.criticalhit.net/gaming/breaking-gog-com-shuts-do... ) that - to this day - I am a bit annoyed by, I've greatly appreciated their service.

public_defender 4y ago
What's the prank? That article just says gog.com went offline.
- OrangeMonkey 4y ago
  https://techgage.com/news/gogcom_is_not_shutting_down_after_all/ https://techgage.com/news/gogcom_is_not_shutting_down_after_... It was a marketing prank. Someone, high up in their company, thought it would be HIGH HUMOR to pretend their site went down before users could download their drm free games. They relaunched a completely new redesigned site a few days later, but this was a mistkae. I still haven't forgotten or forgiven about this, but I still buy from them because the alternative is much worst.
  - macintux 4y ago
    Seems like a perfect example of the pitfall described in the John Scalzi blogpost discussed here earlier today. https://whatever.scalzi.com/2010/06/16/the-failure-state-of-clever/ https://whatever.scalzi.com/2010/06/16/the-failure-state-of-... Update: the highlight for anyone who doesn't care to follow a random link: > The failure mode of clever is “asshole.”
- ozmodiar 4y ago
  Gog pranked people by saying they were going offline and you would lose your games. I guess it was to highlight that they're the only service where you can back up your games and don't need to worry about DRM, but there was a lot of confusion and people didn't find it that funny at the time.
  - OrangeMonkey 4y ago
    > people didn't find it that funny at the time. Or, to this day.
  - tomc1985 4y ago
    Humorists all over the western world are finding that the newest members of their audience don't even speak their language any more. Kind of reminds me of the Funnybot episode of South Park. I for one think the prank that GOG pulled is HILARIOUS
mccorrinall 4y ago
You don’t even own your steam account. If you forget your password, but have other ways to proof (7+ years of purchase history of your credit card and paypal, your ID etc) they will still say: „go fuck yourself, buy all games again.“ Happened to me. Awful customer service.
- sidlls 4y ago
  They have an obligation to provide you with the items/services you purchased. That includes access to them through an account. If you can actually prove the account is yours, you should be able to. Of course, it might be ridiculously expensive (go through the courts)--but that's what these companies are counting on.
  - xuki 4y ago
    You don't even need to go to court, just get a lawyer to write a letter will go way further than any (overworked) customer service rep can help.
  - mccorrinall 4y ago
    After one year of sending tickets back and forth I just asked my credit card issuer to charge back all purchases ever made. Going to court or similar was not an option as a poor student :/
- djbusby 4y ago
  Arbitration clause? Or small-claims court?
  - mokus 4y ago
    Perhaps if they try to force you to arbitration you can push back and demand proof that you agreed to their terms, which is conveniently achieved by creating an account.
    - fdupress 4y ago
reset-password 4y ago
You don't own them, but they sure do everything possible to obfuscate that fact. Regulation will likely be needed as the sellers have shown they will do what it takes to deceive the customer. For example going to the Steam checkout page it very clearly states that I have the option to "Purchase for myself" or "Purchase as a gift". I, like most English speakers, understand the word "Purchase" to mean something very specific. The words license, lease, rental, etc. do not even exist anywhere on any page in the checkout flow all the way through entering your payment information. I can only assume this omission is by design.
- YawningAngel 4y ago
  In fairness to Valve, they don't take the games you've bought away
  - js8 4y ago
    They don't, because unlike Ubisoft, they're mostly a middleman. They run the marketplace for other game vendors and so they have reputation to uphold. However, Ubisoft is primarily a game developer, so there is a moral hazard of them screwing you. We all hate middlemen but this shows why they're needed (in the absence of regulation).
    - iamstupidsimple 4y ago
      Valve is also a games developer, and they never pulled any of their old or failed games. You can still play Artifact or Ricochet multiplayer (if you really want).
  - JZerf 4y ago
    This isn't entirely true. Most (all?) of the games require the Steam client which they are constantly updating and increasing the system requirements for. Systems that could previously run the Steam client and games just fine can no longer run those same games after a while. If I remember correctly the Steam client no longer supports systems running Windows XP, Windows Vista, OS X versions before 10.10, etc... to name a few. This is currently preventing me from running some games I've purchased and I will no longer be making any purchases on Steam until they resolve this problem.
Semaphor 4y ago
While there is no easy way to discover for which game it is the case, many if not most games on steam are actually DRM free. The choice is with the dev/publisher to include steamworks DRM.
zokier 4y ago
You don't generally own any (digital) media or software at all that you purchase.
mlindner 4y ago
> You don't own your games on steam On Steam at least games don't depend on Steam for network play, nor do they depend on Steam's existence for them to work.
- remram 4y ago
  They really do though. You can't start most games without Steam running, unless you replace the Steam DLL that those games link against (but that is considered "cracking"). They is a fraction of Steam games that don't integrate with Steam in any way and therefore can be started by running their binary, but in my experience that is not most games.
- autoexec 4y ago
  Even offline mode stops working if Steam goes long enough without being able to phone home. Your games will not function without Steam
  - mlindner 4y ago
    That's not true. There's no feature of offline mode that requires it to phone home every so often. It works indefinitely.
dghughes 4y ago
>You don't own your games on steam, uplay, or any other drm filled service. Off-topic I know but Samsung retroactively disabled the oxygen sensor software for Samsung phones in Canada. I had been using it for a few years but one day after an update it was disabled by Samsung. The physical sensor still existed obviously but it was no longer usable on a Samsung phone that I owned. I think that should be illegal.
- brokenmachine 4y ago
  100%. I can't wait until consumer laws hit all the phone shenanigans. As a general rule, it should be illegal to issue updates that are not easily consumer-revokable to any device, if it changes functionality to be different to the time of purchase.
highwaylights 4y ago
GOG doesn’t solve this for the online games mentioned. You’d just be left with the files and license to play a game which no longer exists and therefore still can’t be played.
shakna 4y ago
> You don't own your games on steam, uplay, or any other drm filled service. Unless you live in a country with actual consumer rights. Like Australia, as Steam found out when they tried to claim that their games weren't actually goods [0]. I think that the headline article with Ubisoft will also attract the attention of the ACCC, because how they're withdrawing access to a sold good's service, particularly the withdrawal of DLC, is likely to breach the conditions for how you're allowed to advertise and sell items in Australia. [0] https://www.techradar.com/news/valve-has-copped-a-audollar3-million-fine-for-breaching-australias-consumer-laws https://www.techradar.com/news/valve-has-copped-a-audollar3-...
tpoacher 4y ago
I love gog, and have gone through a similar shift for any games that I can. However, I hate to point out that, GoG does in fact have some games with DRM, even though they make a big deal of the fact that they are an anti-DRM shop, and they get away with it buy pretending the definition of DRM is different to what most people think. E.g. I recently bought Worms WMD. You need a Galaxy account to play. I'm not even sure you can cross-play with Steam, I think you can't. Without it, the game is crippled. I would not have bought it if I had known.
- autoexec 4y ago
  GoG should refund you for that if you run into it in the future. I don't buy games that require accounts with 3rd parties or need some weird client installed. I eventually installed Steam, but that's it for me. I'm not installing Galaxy either, and GoG has developed some dark patterns to try to push it on you (links to the actual installers keep getting buried deeper and deeper) but as long as they continue to let you download games without it I'm happy enough.
- zbird 4y ago
  Some DRM does indeed make it into the shop, and ideally it shouldn't. Luckily, the 1-star reviews follow very quickly.
autoexec 4y ago
> If you want to own your games, get used to either having old games and going to flea markets to find them, or buy from GOG. You forgot the great equalizer that is internet piracy. Download cracked copies of every single game in your steam library and you'll be fine for as long you can emulate your current platform. It doesn't stop online services from being shut down, but it does mean you can at least play games offline in 15-20 years as well as you can do it now, not matter what happens to steam or your account. I'll say I love GoG though, and it's the first place I look when I'm buying PC games.

public_defender 4y ago

What's the prank? That article just says gog.com went offline.

OrangeMonkey 4y ago
https://techgage.com/news/gogcom_is_not_shutting_down_after_all/ https://techgage.com/news/gogcom_is_not_shutting_down_after_... It was a marketing prank. Someone, high up in their company, thought it would be HIGH HUMOR to pretend their site went down before users could download their drm free games. They relaunched a completely new redesigned site a few days later, but this was a mistkae. I still haven't forgotten or forgiven about this, but I still buy from them because the alternative is much worst.
- macintux 4y ago
  Seems like a perfect example of the pitfall described in the John Scalzi blogpost discussed here earlier today. https://whatever.scalzi.com/2010/06/16/the-failure-state-of-clever/ https://whatever.scalzi.com/2010/06/16/the-failure-state-of-... Update: the highlight for anyone who doesn't care to follow a random link: > The failure mode of clever is “asshole.”
ozmodiar 4y ago
Gog pranked people by saying they were going offline and you would lose your games. I guess it was to highlight that they're the only service where you can back up your games and don't need to worry about DRM, but there was a lot of confusion and people didn't find it that funny at the time.
- OrangeMonkey 4y ago
  > people didn't find it that funny at the time. Or, to this day.
- tomc1985 4y ago
  Humorists all over the western world are finding that the newest members of their audience don't even speak their language any more. Kind of reminds me of the Funnybot episode of South Park. I for one think the prank that GOG pulled is HILARIOUS

mccorrinall 4y ago

You don’t even own your steam account. If you forget your password, but have other ways to proof (7+ years of purchase history of your credit card and paypal, your ID etc) they will still say: „go fuck yourself, buy all games again.“ Happened to me. Awful customer service.

sidlls 4y ago
They have an obligation to provide you with the items/services you purchased. That includes access to them through an account. If you can actually prove the account is yours, you should be able to. Of course, it might be ridiculously expensive (go through the courts)--but that's what these companies are counting on.
- xuki 4y ago
  You don't even need to go to court, just get a lawyer to write a letter will go way further than any (overworked) customer service rep can help.
- mccorrinall 4y ago
  After one year of sending tickets back and forth I just asked my credit card issuer to charge back all purchases ever made. Going to court or similar was not an option as a poor student :/
djbusby 4y ago
Arbitration clause? Or small-claims court?
- mokus 4y ago
  Perhaps if they try to force you to arbitration you can push back and demand proof that you agreed to their terms, which is conveniently achieved by creating an account.
  - fdupress 4y ago

reset-password 4y ago

You don't own them, but they sure do everything possible to obfuscate that fact. Regulation will likely be needed as the sellers have shown they will do what it takes to deceive the customer. For example going to the Steam checkout page it very clearly states that I have the option to "Purchase for myself" or "Purchase as a gift". I, like most English speakers, understand the word "Purchase" to mean something very specific. The words license, lease, rental, etc. do not even exist anywhere on any page in the checkout flow all the way through entering your payment information. I can only assume this omission is by design.

YawningAngel 4y ago
In fairness to Valve, they don't take the games you've bought away
- js8 4y ago
  They don't, because unlike Ubisoft, they're mostly a middleman. They run the marketplace for other game vendors and so they have reputation to uphold. However, Ubisoft is primarily a game developer, so there is a moral hazard of them screwing you. We all hate middlemen but this shows why they're needed (in the absence of regulation).
  - iamstupidsimple 4y ago
    Valve is also a games developer, and they never pulled any of their old or failed games. You can still play Artifact or Ricochet multiplayer (if you really want).
- JZerf 4y ago
  This isn't entirely true. Most (all?) of the games require the Steam client which they are constantly updating and increasing the system requirements for. Systems that could previously run the Steam client and games just fine can no longer run those same games after a while. If I remember correctly the Steam client no longer supports systems running Windows XP, Windows Vista, OS X versions before 10.10, etc... to name a few. This is currently preventing me from running some games I've purchased and I will no longer be making any purchases on Steam until they resolve this problem.

Semaphor 4y ago

While there is no easy way to discover for which game it is the case, many if not most games on steam are actually DRM free. The choice is with the dev/publisher to include steamworks DRM.

zokier 4y ago

You don't generally own any (digital) media or software at all that you purchase.

mlindner 4y ago

> You don't own your games on steam On Steam at least games don't depend on Steam for network play, nor do they depend on Steam's existence for them to work.

remram 4y ago
They really do though. You can't start most games without Steam running, unless you replace the Steam DLL that those games link against (but that is considered "cracking"). They is a fraction of Steam games that don't integrate with Steam in any way and therefore can be started by running their binary, but in my experience that is not most games.
autoexec 4y ago
Even offline mode stops working if Steam goes long enough without being able to phone home. Your games will not function without Steam
- mlindner 4y ago
  That's not true. There's no feature of offline mode that requires it to phone home every so often. It works indefinitely.

dghughes 4y ago

>You don't own your games on steam, uplay, or any other drm filled service. Off-topic I know but Samsung retroactively disabled the oxygen sensor software for Samsung phones in Canada. I had been using it for a few years but one day after an update it was disabled by Samsung. The physical sensor still existed obviously but it was no longer usable on a Samsung phone that I owned. I think that should be illegal.

brokenmachine 4y ago
100%. I can't wait until consumer laws hit all the phone shenanigans. As a general rule, it should be illegal to issue updates that are not easily consumer-revokable to any device, if it changes functionality to be different to the time of purchase.

highwaylights 4y ago

GOG doesn’t solve this for the online games mentioned. You’d just be left with the files and license to play a game which no longer exists and therefore still can’t be played.

shakna 4y ago

> You don't own your games on steam, uplay, or any other drm filled service. Unless you live in a country with actual consumer rights. Like Australia, as Steam found out when they tried to claim that their games weren't actually goods [0]. I think that the headline article with Ubisoft will also attract the attention of the ACCC, because how they're withdrawing access to a sold good's service, particularly the withdrawal of DLC, is likely to breach the conditions for how you're allowed to advertise and sell items in Australia. [0] https://www.techradar.com/news/valve-has-copped-a-audollar3-million-fine-for-breaching-australias-consumer-laws https://www.techradar.com/news/valve-has-copped-a-audollar3-...

tpoacher 4y ago

I love gog, and have gone through a similar shift for any games that I can. However, I hate to point out that, GoG does in fact have some games with DRM, even though they make a big deal of the fact that they are an anti-DRM shop, and they get away with it buy pretending the definition of DRM is different to what most people think. E.g. I recently bought Worms WMD. You need a Galaxy account to play. I'm not even sure you can cross-play with Steam, I think you can't. Without it, the game is crippled. I would not have bought it if I had known.

autoexec 4y ago
GoG should refund you for that if you run into it in the future. I don't buy games that require accounts with 3rd parties or need some weird client installed. I eventually installed Steam, but that's it for me. I'm not installing Galaxy either, and GoG has developed some dark patterns to try to push it on you (links to the actual installers keep getting buried deeper and deeper) but as long as they continue to let you download games without it I'm happy enough.
zbird 4y ago
Some DRM does indeed make it into the shop, and ideally it shouldn't. Luckily, the 1-star reviews follow very quickly.

autoexec 4y ago

> If you want to own your games, get used to either having old games and going to flea markets to find them, or buy from GOG. You forgot the great equalizer that is internet piracy. Download cracked copies of every single game in your steam library and you'll be fine for as long you can emulate your current platform. It doesn't stop online services from being shut down, but it does mean you can at least play games offline in 15-20 years as well as you can do it now, not matter what happens to steam or your account. I'll say I love GoG though, and it's the first place I look when I'm buying PC games.