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It's not an unpopular opinion: it's true. Graphql is a terrible piece of software/paradigm. I've completely avoided it for years. If a potential new job contac

by geuis 4y ago

It's not an unpopular opinion: it's true. Graphql is a terrible piece of software/paradigm. I've completely avoided it for years. If a potential new job contacts me and they use graphql, it's an immediate no from me. It's an immediate red flag that the engineering culture at the company is poorly run and would be a nightmare to work in. Run away, as fast as possible.

publicdaniel 4y ago
It’s not an unpopular opinion on HackerNews.
chpmrc 4y ago
> Graphql is a terrible piece of software/paradigm. Says who, exactly? What data are you basing this on? Or is it a completely subjective opinion dictated by frustration likely caused by the lack of understanding of it?
- runald 4y ago
  Did you try reading the thread? What do you mean by data? > Or is it a completely subjective opinion dictated by frustration likely caused by the lack of understanding of it? You can ask this this very same question when people say graphql is an amazing piece of software/paradigm, except s/frustration/hype/
  - chpmrc 4y ago
    Your argument stops being valid the second you realize that a lot of devs who use GraphQL started out as skeptics (e.g. me), then spent time actually understanding its nuances before coming to a conclusion for a specific project/team. And, in general, there's no such thing as a "good" or a "bad" technology, there are dimensions and each dimension is a spectrum: utility, adoption, availability, cost, complexity (although hard to determine), etc. to compress all that down to "hype" or "it sucks" just show how little time has been spent on understanding the nuances I mentioned above. I don't claim GraphQL is amazing or even good, it just proved to be a great way to build APIs for the projects I worked on. I'm sure someone who builds firmwares for embedded automated plumbing systems would disagree (within that context). If you decide not to adopt it I just hope you do it after a rational, unbiased review of what the tech is capable of and what the shortcomings are, rather than "oh it's over hyped". > Did you try reading the thread? What do you mean by data? Please don't question whether someone read the thread or not (which is irrelevant within the scope of this discussion anyway) just because they disagree with you.
hn_throwaway_99 4y ago
> It's an immediate red flag that the engineering culture at the company is poorly run and would be a nightmare to work in. Well, at least I'm glad I know I'll never be working with you! I'm not giving you shit because you don't like GraphQL, I'm giving you shit because of your asinine "if you use GraphQL your company is poorly run and a nightmare" comment. Whenever I see a comment from any developer that says "If you use technology X then you are an idiot", then I know that developer is either incredibly junior and doesn't understand the tradeoffs in choosing any technology, or they're showing typical "if you don't like what I like than you don't know what you're doing" arrogance that inevitably always makes it a pain in the ass to work with that person.
- cudgy 4y ago
  You are right that this arrogant attitude is juvenile, but it is prevalent amongst humans in all areas. Unfortunately, there would be few developers to work with if you apply the policy of not working with arrogant, dogmatic developers.
  - Kaze404 4y ago
    There’s this stereotype of a programmer, that while I think can be funny sometimes, still reflects a professional that doesn’t really exist anymore from my perspective. Most software engineers I’ve worked with have been incredibly humble and dedicated. The mythical bearded guy that showers three times a day, comes to the office with shorts and flip flops, and refuses to install Windows on the accountant person’s machine because it’s objectively bad is something I’ve only seen in memes and stories from older people I’ve worked with. I personally think dissolving this myth, along with the one that programming is easy and / or none of us know what we’re doing, should be a shared goal between people who care about what they do and how others perceive it. Otherwise we’re unknowingly cultivating it into existence, and I definitely don’t want to work with arrogant, dogmatic developers.
  - hn_throwaway_99 4y ago
    Strongly disagree, primarily because when this type of attitude infects dev teams it is usually a cultural issue, not an individual one. The primary, inviolable value I have, and look for, in dev teams is "strong opinions, loosely held". Meaning I want to work with engineers that have the experience, motivation and intelligence to have strong opinions about how things should be done, but it's also critically important that developers are humble enough to know other developers may have other experiences that can inform why a different decision can be better. If you've worked in a dev team that embodies this attitude, you know how great it can be and how dev team members will naturally work to strongly defend the group dynamic that it fosters. Meaning if a developer with a bit too much arrogance joins the team, they can often be trained into not having to be so judgemental, or making disagreements about real issues and not emotional arguments ("GraphQL sucks and you're stupid if you use it") If not, the existing team will quickly reject that arrogant developer because they know how dangerous they can be to a healthy group dynamic.
zmxz 4y ago
Yup, gotta trust the words from some unknown from internet, with 0 proof. As if we're all there, up in your head, able to hear every single thought you have and determine that what you say is pure, unfiltered truth. If many manage to use GraphQL and be content with it, that should be an indicator to you. But, you chose it isn't and that you'll merely display how politely negative you can be. Thank you.
- runald 4y ago
  > trust the words > pure, unfiltered truth noone is forcing anyone to believe in anything, it's just some guy expressing his strong opinions about a subject, but no, you act like someone uttered a blasphemy against the lord's name
eknkc 4y ago
So you are sure that some tech that you avoided completely (and I assume have zero experience in) is a terrible piece of software. Great. What is your take on the postal service structure of Turkmenistan btw?
- mechanical_bear 4y ago
  Their service scope is waaaay too broad, no reason to be responsible for quasi banking services, traffic fine payment, and utility payment processing.
  - CRConrad 4y ago
    Services like those are part of the scope of quite a lot of national post institutions, and actually for quite valid reasons.
soccersofia15 4y ago
Based on your logic, you’ve never worked for Airbnb, Uber, Facebook, Twitter, etc… which is also funny cause they have fantastic engineering culture. What a strange way to filter yourself out of great engineering companies just because of a piece of technology
- minusf 4y ago
  doesnt matter how beautiful the engineering culture/talented the pool if it works on ads/surveillance/facebook.

by geuis 4y ago

publicdaniel 4y ago

It’s not an unpopular opinion on HackerNews.

chpmrc 4y ago

> Graphql is a terrible piece of software/paradigm. Says who, exactly? What data are you basing this on? Or is it a completely subjective opinion dictated by frustration likely caused by the lack of understanding of it?

runald 4y ago
Did you try reading the thread? What do you mean by data? > Or is it a completely subjective opinion dictated by frustration likely caused by the lack of understanding of it? You can ask this this very same question when people say graphql is an amazing piece of software/paradigm, except s/frustration/hype/
- chpmrc 4y ago
  Your argument stops being valid the second you realize that a lot of devs who use GraphQL started out as skeptics (e.g. me), then spent time actually understanding its nuances before coming to a conclusion for a specific project/team. And, in general, there's no such thing as a "good" or a "bad" technology, there are dimensions and each dimension is a spectrum: utility, adoption, availability, cost, complexity (although hard to determine), etc. to compress all that down to "hype" or "it sucks" just show how little time has been spent on understanding the nuances I mentioned above. I don't claim GraphQL is amazing or even good, it just proved to be a great way to build APIs for the projects I worked on. I'm sure someone who builds firmwares for embedded automated plumbing systems would disagree (within that context). If you decide not to adopt it I just hope you do it after a rational, unbiased review of what the tech is capable of and what the shortcomings are, rather than "oh it's over hyped". > Did you try reading the thread? What do you mean by data? Please don't question whether someone read the thread or not (which is irrelevant within the scope of this discussion anyway) just because they disagree with you.

hn_throwaway_99 4y ago

> It's an immediate red flag that the engineering culture at the company is poorly run and would be a nightmare to work in. Well, at least I'm glad I know I'll never be working with you! I'm not giving you shit because you don't like GraphQL, I'm giving you shit because of your asinine "if you use GraphQL your company is poorly run and a nightmare" comment. Whenever I see a comment from any developer that says "If you use technology X then you are an idiot", then I know that developer is either incredibly junior and doesn't understand the tradeoffs in choosing any technology, or they're showing typical "if you don't like what I like than you don't know what you're doing" arrogance that inevitably always makes it a pain in the ass to work with that person.

cudgy 4y ago
You are right that this arrogant attitude is juvenile, but it is prevalent amongst humans in all areas. Unfortunately, there would be few developers to work with if you apply the policy of not working with arrogant, dogmatic developers.
- Kaze404 4y ago
  There’s this stereotype of a programmer, that while I think can be funny sometimes, still reflects a professional that doesn’t really exist anymore from my perspective. Most software engineers I’ve worked with have been incredibly humble and dedicated. The mythical bearded guy that showers three times a day, comes to the office with shorts and flip flops, and refuses to install Windows on the accountant person’s machine because it’s objectively bad is something I’ve only seen in memes and stories from older people I’ve worked with. I personally think dissolving this myth, along with the one that programming is easy and / or none of us know what we’re doing, should be a shared goal between people who care about what they do and how others perceive it. Otherwise we’re unknowingly cultivating it into existence, and I definitely don’t want to work with arrogant, dogmatic developers.
- hn_throwaway_99 4y ago
  Strongly disagree, primarily because when this type of attitude infects dev teams it is usually a cultural issue, not an individual one. The primary, inviolable value I have, and look for, in dev teams is "strong opinions, loosely held". Meaning I want to work with engineers that have the experience, motivation and intelligence to have strong opinions about how things should be done, but it's also critically important that developers are humble enough to know other developers may have other experiences that can inform why a different decision can be better. If you've worked in a dev team that embodies this attitude, you know how great it can be and how dev team members will naturally work to strongly defend the group dynamic that it fosters. Meaning if a developer with a bit too much arrogance joins the team, they can often be trained into not having to be so judgemental, or making disagreements about real issues and not emotional arguments ("GraphQL sucks and you're stupid if you use it") If not, the existing team will quickly reject that arrogant developer because they know how dangerous they can be to a healthy group dynamic.

zmxz 4y ago

Yup, gotta trust the words from some unknown from internet, with 0 proof. As if we're all there, up in your head, able to hear every single thought you have and determine that what you say is pure, unfiltered truth. If many manage to use GraphQL and be content with it, that should be an indicator to you. But, you chose it isn't and that you'll merely display how politely negative you can be. Thank you.

runald 4y ago
> trust the words > pure, unfiltered truth noone is forcing anyone to believe in anything, it's just some guy expressing his strong opinions about a subject, but no, you act like someone uttered a blasphemy against the lord's name

eknkc 4y ago

So you are sure that some tech that you avoided completely (and I assume have zero experience in) is a terrible piece of software. Great. What is your take on the postal service structure of Turkmenistan btw?

mechanical_bear 4y ago
Their service scope is waaaay too broad, no reason to be responsible for quasi banking services, traffic fine payment, and utility payment processing.
- CRConrad 4y ago
  Services like those are part of the scope of quite a lot of national post institutions, and actually for quite valid reasons.

soccersofia15 4y ago

Based on your logic, you’ve never worked for Airbnb, Uber, Facebook, Twitter, etc… which is also funny cause they have fantastic engineering culture. What a strange way to filter yourself out of great engineering companies just because of a piece of technology

minusf 4y ago
doesnt matter how beautiful the engineering culture/talented the pool if it works on ads/surveillance/facebook.