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I absolutely hope this does not happen. It’ll be another trade of perceived convenience over privacy. I absolutely do not want to run my life from my phone. I w

I absolutely hope this does not happen. It’ll be another trade of perceived convenience over privacy. I absolutely do not want to run my life from my phone. I want to pay for things with cash. I am happy to perform admin tasks in person where required. I live in Austria and cash is still used in a big way. Many smaller restaurants in the rural areas only accept cash. I withdraw cash from the ATM at the entrance to my local supermarket in order to pay for groceries with cash. On a recent trip to the UK I was surprised at the number of locations where cash payments were not possible. Want a Thames riverboat? Card only. Want to enter Warwick Castle? Card only. Want to buy something in the gift shop for £5? Card only. It was actually pretty annoying, as I had a fat wad of Pounds Sterling notes. At least cash was still possible in every pub I visited, even if their default assumption was a card payment. Up until recently I was in no way digitally connected for Austrian government services. Sadly, for some business reasons I had to acquire a “Handy Signature” (basically 2FA via your phone) to perform some operations with the tax office.

asdojasdosadsa 4y ago
Why would physical (passport, cash) be excluded if digital option is added?
- phillc73 4y ago
  It’s happening already, as noted in my comment above. A fair number of venues in the UK no longer accept cash payments.
  - dijit 4y ago
    It’s very common in Sweden. There’s even tax incentives I believe. “Kontantfri” is a sign I see very often.
    - doikor 4y ago
      Not really tax incentives but not having to pay some security company to come pick your cash every evening to store it securely in the bank and exchange the bigger notes for smaller ones so you can give change back turns out to be more expensive for smaller shops/cafes then paying whatever card transaction processor you use their ~1% fees. So at the end of the day accepting cash is more expensive for small shops. (not 100% sure about Sweden but that is the case here in Finland).
- vladvasiliu 4y ago
  It shouldn't, but if history is any indication, the new will replace the old. Especially if they conjure some kind of feel-good reason, like fighting against terrorists or something.
- varispeed 4y ago
  Example from today - I was in a supermarket and all self-checkout machines that accept cash were defunct except one, so there was a huge queue of people who wanted to pay with cash and no queue of people paying with card. I see that there is a silent war on cash - they try to make it as inconvenient as possible and then claim not enough people use it to sustain Cash Points, cash self-checkout etc. Digital money remove agency from people. You no longer own it - you just have access to it that it can be withdrawn on a whim (see Trudeau casus) and then they will be deciding what you can or cannot buy based on your profile. Google about CBDC - programmable money that is in the works. Cash stands in the way.
  - phillc73 4y ago
    The self checkouts are a problem in themselves. Where I have the choice, I will always go to a human operated checkout line. I would prefer people have jobs, rather than seeing them taken over by the self-service option. Also in the UK recently I encountered for the first time a supermarket where self-service was the only option. As I was buying beer, before I would complete my transaction it had to be approved by a human, which seemed to defeat the purpose.
  - martimarkov 4y ago
    So the government will decide what you can buy because… why? Big corporations want it? Big corporations want the biggest chunk of your money so they want you to have a “complete” freedom of your money so you can spend it on their products. All these arguments sound to me like conspiracy theories because I don’t see real examples. Show me a scenario where the government would want you to not buy something. Like what would that be? Guns? Yeah I’m the EU they will block you but that’s because it’s illegal. Do you feel like they will limit the amount of alcohol you can buy? That would be an example. But prohibition has been tried before. Ppl want alcohol and ppl vote. Also why would the government care so much about what you buy? If their plan was to control you and stuff why do we have so many privacy laws and initiatives in the EU? Also this seems like a very long term project. Do you believe the ppl working in the government are soooo competent?
ChuckNorris89 4y ago
> I live in Austria and cash is still used in a big way. Many smaller restaurants in the rural areas only accept cash. Because they do tax fraud. That's why every restaurant and small business owner in the country side has a big house and a Tesla, despite the average national take home wage being 1800€. I hope the remove cash to crack down on this. It's unfair for the rest of us with jobs to foot the bill for the government expenses while others get away without declaring their full earnings due to the use of cash. Last year it made news that the tax office caught a small farmer that defrauded the government of over 3 million Euro. And that guy is just one of many that go uncaught. >Up until recently I was in no way digitally connected for Austrian government services. Why is everyone in Austria so backwards, conservative and against any kind of technological progress? I'm not Austrian but I have to live there unfortunately and day to day stuff is a huge pain: Everything is cash with lines at the supermarket taking ages until every customer's coins are counted and accounted for, plus all the constat letters and paperwork is a nightmare. Very little digitalization throughout the country. Not that different than Germany, but at least Germany has a mich bigger jobs market with proper wages to make up for the discomfort. That's why Austrian devs earn less than Estonians, Poles or Romanians. This excessive conservativism is holding Austria back massively and the gap will widen as it's just not a compelling county for tech companies to do business in. It's not as rich and big market as Germany, nor as low-tax, rich and innovative as Switzerland, nor as cheap and low-tax as Poland, Estonia or Romania, nor as progressive, innovative and low-tax as Netherlands.
- phillc73 4y ago
  Holding Austria back from what? I’m not Austrian either, do live there and despite some factors I’m not a fan of, the lack of digitisation in society in general is a strong selling point for me. I really do believe that excessive digitisation of society is trading personal autonomy (freedom, privacy) for some kind of perceived convenience. Personally, I think the trade off is not worth it. I do not want big business (banks) and the government able to track every location I’ve been to and every cent I’ve spent. I’m also concerned about reliance on digital services, which can be prone to failure - not a problem with cash - and for those unfortunate people without a bank account, the inability to use cash is life damaging. Having been through many, many hoops with the UK’s Home Office (including a 13 month Visa Appeal process, which ended up in court where the Home Office didn’t even bother to send a representative), compared to the supremely easy and face to face process in obtaining an Artikel 50 Brexit visa in Austria, I’d choose the Austrian process every time.
dzhiurgis 4y ago
How is ME going cashless impact your life? Keep using cash and argue with businesses what payments they DON'T expect.

asdojasdosadsa 4y ago

Why would physical (passport, cash) be excluded if digital option is added?

phillc73 4y ago
It’s happening already, as noted in my comment above. A fair number of venues in the UK no longer accept cash payments.
- dijit 4y ago
  It’s very common in Sweden. There’s even tax incentives I believe. “Kontantfri” is a sign I see very often.
  - doikor 4y ago
    Not really tax incentives but not having to pay some security company to come pick your cash every evening to store it securely in the bank and exchange the bigger notes for smaller ones so you can give change back turns out to be more expensive for smaller shops/cafes then paying whatever card transaction processor you use their ~1% fees. So at the end of the day accepting cash is more expensive for small shops. (not 100% sure about Sweden but that is the case here in Finland).
vladvasiliu 4y ago
It shouldn't, but if history is any indication, the new will replace the old. Especially if they conjure some kind of feel-good reason, like fighting against terrorists or something.
varispeed 4y ago
Example from today - I was in a supermarket and all self-checkout machines that accept cash were defunct except one, so there was a huge queue of people who wanted to pay with cash and no queue of people paying with card. I see that there is a silent war on cash - they try to make it as inconvenient as possible and then claim not enough people use it to sustain Cash Points, cash self-checkout etc. Digital money remove agency from people. You no longer own it - you just have access to it that it can be withdrawn on a whim (see Trudeau casus) and then they will be deciding what you can or cannot buy based on your profile. Google about CBDC - programmable money that is in the works. Cash stands in the way.
- phillc73 4y ago
  The self checkouts are a problem in themselves. Where I have the choice, I will always go to a human operated checkout line. I would prefer people have jobs, rather than seeing them taken over by the self-service option. Also in the UK recently I encountered for the first time a supermarket where self-service was the only option. As I was buying beer, before I would complete my transaction it had to be approved by a human, which seemed to defeat the purpose.
- martimarkov 4y ago
  So the government will decide what you can buy because… why? Big corporations want it? Big corporations want the biggest chunk of your money so they want you to have a “complete” freedom of your money so you can spend it on their products. All these arguments sound to me like conspiracy theories because I don’t see real examples. Show me a scenario where the government would want you to not buy something. Like what would that be? Guns? Yeah I’m the EU they will block you but that’s because it’s illegal. Do you feel like they will limit the amount of alcohol you can buy? That would be an example. But prohibition has been tried before. Ppl want alcohol and ppl vote. Also why would the government care so much about what you buy? If their plan was to control you and stuff why do we have so many privacy laws and initiatives in the EU? Also this seems like a very long term project. Do you believe the ppl working in the government are soooo competent?

ChuckNorris89 4y ago

> I live in Austria and cash is still used in a big way. Many smaller restaurants in the rural areas only accept cash. Because they do tax fraud. That's why every restaurant and small business owner in the country side has a big house and a Tesla, despite the average national take home wage being 1800€. I hope the remove cash to crack down on this. It's unfair for the rest of us with jobs to foot the bill for the government expenses while others get away without declaring their full earnings due to the use of cash. Last year it made news that the tax office caught a small farmer that defrauded the government of over 3 million Euro. And that guy is just one of many that go uncaught. >Up until recently I was in no way digitally connected for Austrian government services. Why is everyone in Austria so backwards, conservative and against any kind of technological progress? I'm not Austrian but I have to live there unfortunately and day to day stuff is a huge pain: Everything is cash with lines at the supermarket taking ages until every customer's coins are counted and accounted for, plus all the constat letters and paperwork is a nightmare. Very little digitalization throughout the country. Not that different than Germany, but at least Germany has a mich bigger jobs market with proper wages to make up for the discomfort. That's why Austrian devs earn less than Estonians, Poles or Romanians. This excessive conservativism is holding Austria back massively and the gap will widen as it's just not a compelling county for tech companies to do business in. It's not as rich and big market as Germany, nor as low-tax, rich and innovative as Switzerland, nor as cheap and low-tax as Poland, Estonia or Romania, nor as progressive, innovative and low-tax as Netherlands.

phillc73 4y ago
Holding Austria back from what? I’m not Austrian either, do live there and despite some factors I’m not a fan of, the lack of digitisation in society in general is a strong selling point for me. I really do believe that excessive digitisation of society is trading personal autonomy (freedom, privacy) for some kind of perceived convenience. Personally, I think the trade off is not worth it. I do not want big business (banks) and the government able to track every location I’ve been to and every cent I’ve spent. I’m also concerned about reliance on digital services, which can be prone to failure - not a problem with cash - and for those unfortunate people without a bank account, the inability to use cash is life damaging. Having been through many, many hoops with the UK’s Home Office (including a 13 month Visa Appeal process, which ended up in court where the Home Office didn’t even bother to send a representative), compared to the supremely easy and face to face process in obtaining an Artikel 50 Brexit visa in Austria, I’d choose the Austrian process every time.

dzhiurgis 4y ago

How is ME going cashless impact your life? Keep using cash and argue with businesses what payments they DON'T expect.