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I really hope EU driver's licenses will follow soon. After that I could actually stop carrying a wallet. Cash usage basically stopped in Northern Europe years a

by oittaa 4y ago

I really hope EU driver's licenses will follow soon. After that I could actually stop carrying a wallet. Cash usage basically stopped in Northern Europe years ago, but for some reason we still have to carry these few relics when driving or traveling.

mdre 4y ago
In Poland you don't need to carry one, I've been walletless for like a year now. It's a shame the driver's database is not EU-wide - that would be awesome.
- vladvasiliu 4y ago
  > It's a shame the driver's database is not EU-wide I'm pretty sure in France, the police won't be happy if they stop you, and you can't show your license and vehicle papers. Even though they are in a database, with the photograph for the license. And they also seem to know enough just by reading the plates to send you automated speeding tickets by snail mail.
asdojasdosadsa 4y ago
Pretty much my exact reaction to this article. There actually was a test period (ended 2020) testing a digital drivers license in Finland! (Finnish) https://www.puhelinvertailu.com/uutiset/2022/02/09/sahkoinen-ajokortti-mobiiliajokortti-kohtalo https://www.puhelinvertailu.com/uutiset/2022/02/09/sahkoinen...
mytailorisrich 4y ago
When I travel abroad I leave my passport in a safe place as much as I can if I don't absolutely have to carry it with me, along with a payment card and some cash. If I lose my phone or wallet I still have my passport and a mean of payment. Now I foresee a future in which a cause of homelessness will be losing your phone.
- worble 4y ago
  They just need to accept both. I can print off a digital plane ticket and keep one on my phone, if I lose one I always have the other. If I lose my physical passport though, I'm completely stuck. If I can have a physical and digital one though, there is at least some redundancy built in.
- kzrdude 4y ago
  There's already enough connected to the phone that it is terrifying what would happen if I were to lose it. Especially when travelling, but also when just working and commuting.
  - Ekaros 4y ago
    I hate that we are building this single point of failure for absolutely everything. From money, to house and car keys. And then everything financial. First reasonable problem is simply losing it or it breaking. That is fun times if you don't have physical keys anymore. No car, no access to home, no way to contact the support... And second is that I'm paranoid and I don't think it will be safe enough. Thus connecting absolutely everything to it and identity it provides just feels scary. I think I could possibly buy an apartment with a loan if there was ID connected to phone and it was cracked...
    - sveme 4y ago
      It also means you become susceptible to the whims of Apple if anything breaks, is stolen or you lose it. Just imagine Google's horrid customer service and then you trying to navigate it to have a blocked account (to which your digital ID is connected) unblocked.
    - nonrandomstring 4y ago
      > we are building this single point of failure for absolutely everything. I don't think it will be safe enough. It won't. I believe we are actively setting up not only the biggest ever terrorist attack on civilised nations, which will dwarf 9/11, but potentially setting up a total and irrecoverable collapse. I find it increasingly hard not to think this is deliberate because I am unable to comprehend the colossal stupidity of our current trajectory viz "smartphones". It's like we want this to happen. Smartphone over-reliance is the single biggest national security threat I can see. We urgently need policy level thinking to shift things into a safer space.
phillc73 4y ago
I absolutely hope this does not happen. It’ll be another trade of perceived convenience over privacy. I absolutely do not want to run my life from my phone. I want to pay for things with cash. I am happy to perform admin tasks in person where required. I live in Austria and cash is still used in a big way. Many smaller restaurants in the rural areas only accept cash. I withdraw cash from the ATM at the entrance to my local supermarket in order to pay for groceries with cash. On a recent trip to the UK I was surprised at the number of locations where cash payments were not possible. Want a Thames riverboat? Card only. Want to enter Warwick Castle? Card only. Want to buy something in the gift shop for £5? Card only. It was actually pretty annoying, as I had a fat wad of Pounds Sterling notes. At least cash was still possible in every pub I visited, even if their default assumption was a card payment. Up until recently I was in no way digitally connected for Austrian government services. Sadly, for some business reasons I had to acquire a “Handy Signature” (basically 2FA via your phone) to perform some operations with the tax office.
- asdojasdosadsa 4y ago
  Why would physical (passport, cash) be excluded if digital option is added?
  - phillc73 4y ago
    It’s happening already, as noted in my comment above. A fair number of venues in the UK no longer accept cash payments.
    - dijit 4y ago
      It’s very common in Sweden. There’s even tax incentives I believe. “Kontantfri” is a sign I see very often.
      - doikor 4y ago
        Not really tax incentives but not having to pay some security company to come pick your cash every evening to store it securely in the bank and exchange the bigger notes for smaller ones so you can give change back turns out to be more expensive for smaller shops/cafes then paying whatever card transaction processor you use their ~1% fees. So at the end of the day accepting cash is more expensive for small shops. (not 100% sure about Sweden but that is the case here in Finland).
diggan 4y ago
I thought this was already a thing? I have my Spanish driving license on my phone via MiDGT (published by the Directorate-General for Traffic which is the government entity responsible for traffic/road in Spain), do other EU countries not have this too? I thought it was EU-wide but maybe it's just in Spain.
- hadrien01 4y ago
  It depends entirely of the country. For example, Poland and Portugal have digital driver's licenses, but France and Germany do not.
helloworld11 4y ago
I can't stand this attitude. People who think like you on this do a lot to help move the surveillance society and the potential for turnkey repression forward endlessly. No evil reasons needed, but a constant stream of self absorbed platitudes of "oh but it's so convenient, I hope everyone else has to do it too, and make trivial things even easier for me". These of course remain blind to any perspective of how history has shown governments and criminal organizations using the ability to track everything for creating easy victims of others. No matter though right? As long as it saves you from having to carry a few ounces of wallet around because oh, it's such a "relic." Sooner or later basic privacy, anonymity and the freedoms that are bound to these can also become complete relics of the past, but I suppose that will be a relief, because so much will be convenient.

by oittaa 4y ago

mdre 4y ago

In Poland you don't need to carry one, I've been walletless for like a year now. It's a shame the driver's database is not EU-wide - that would be awesome.

vladvasiliu 4y ago
> It's a shame the driver's database is not EU-wide I'm pretty sure in France, the police won't be happy if they stop you, and you can't show your license and vehicle papers. Even though they are in a database, with the photograph for the license. And they also seem to know enough just by reading the plates to send you automated speeding tickets by snail mail.

asdojasdosadsa 4y ago

Pretty much my exact reaction to this article. There actually was a test period (ended 2020) testing a digital drivers license in Finland! (Finnish) https://www.puhelinvertailu.com/uutiset/2022/02/09/sahkoinen-ajokortti-mobiiliajokortti-kohtalo https://www.puhelinvertailu.com/uutiset/2022/02/09/sahkoinen...

mytailorisrich 4y ago

When I travel abroad I leave my passport in a safe place as much as I can if I don't absolutely have to carry it with me, along with a payment card and some cash. If I lose my phone or wallet I still have my passport and a mean of payment. Now I foresee a future in which a cause of homelessness will be losing your phone.

worble 4y ago
They just need to accept both. I can print off a digital plane ticket and keep one on my phone, if I lose one I always have the other. If I lose my physical passport though, I'm completely stuck. If I can have a physical and digital one though, there is at least some redundancy built in.
kzrdude 4y ago
There's already enough connected to the phone that it is terrifying what would happen if I were to lose it. Especially when travelling, but also when just working and commuting.
- Ekaros 4y ago
  I hate that we are building this single point of failure for absolutely everything. From money, to house and car keys. And then everything financial. First reasonable problem is simply losing it or it breaking. That is fun times if you don't have physical keys anymore. No car, no access to home, no way to contact the support... And second is that I'm paranoid and I don't think it will be safe enough. Thus connecting absolutely everything to it and identity it provides just feels scary. I think I could possibly buy an apartment with a loan if there was ID connected to phone and it was cracked...
  - sveme 4y ago
    It also means you become susceptible to the whims of Apple if anything breaks, is stolen or you lose it. Just imagine Google's horrid customer service and then you trying to navigate it to have a blocked account (to which your digital ID is connected) unblocked.
  - nonrandomstring 4y ago
    > we are building this single point of failure for absolutely everything. I don't think it will be safe enough. It won't. I believe we are actively setting up not only the biggest ever terrorist attack on civilised nations, which will dwarf 9/11, but potentially setting up a total and irrecoverable collapse. I find it increasingly hard not to think this is deliberate because I am unable to comprehend the colossal stupidity of our current trajectory viz "smartphones". It's like we want this to happen. Smartphone over-reliance is the single biggest national security threat I can see. We urgently need policy level thinking to shift things into a safer space.

phillc73 4y ago

I absolutely hope this does not happen. It’ll be another trade of perceived convenience over privacy. I absolutely do not want to run my life from my phone. I want to pay for things with cash. I am happy to perform admin tasks in person where required. I live in Austria and cash is still used in a big way. Many smaller restaurants in the rural areas only accept cash. I withdraw cash from the ATM at the entrance to my local supermarket in order to pay for groceries with cash. On a recent trip to the UK I was surprised at the number of locations where cash payments were not possible. Want a Thames riverboat? Card only. Want to enter Warwick Castle? Card only. Want to buy something in the gift shop for £5? Card only. It was actually pretty annoying, as I had a fat wad of Pounds Sterling notes. At least cash was still possible in every pub I visited, even if their default assumption was a card payment. Up until recently I was in no way digitally connected for Austrian government services. Sadly, for some business reasons I had to acquire a “Handy Signature” (basically 2FA via your phone) to perform some operations with the tax office.

asdojasdosadsa 4y ago
Why would physical (passport, cash) be excluded if digital option is added?
- phillc73 4y ago
  It’s happening already, as noted in my comment above. A fair number of venues in the UK no longer accept cash payments.
  - dijit 4y ago
    It’s very common in Sweden. There’s even tax incentives I believe. “Kontantfri” is a sign I see very often.
    - doikor 4y ago
      Not really tax incentives but not having to pay some security company to come pick your cash every evening to store it securely in the bank and exchange the bigger notes for smaller ones so you can give change back turns out to be more expensive for smaller shops/cafes then paying whatever card transaction processor you use their ~1% fees. So at the end of the day accepting cash is more expensive for small shops. (not 100% sure about Sweden but that is the case here in Finland).

diggan 4y ago

I thought this was already a thing? I have my Spanish driving license on my phone via MiDGT (published by the Directorate-General for Traffic which is the government entity responsible for traffic/road in Spain), do other EU countries not have this too? I thought it was EU-wide but maybe it's just in Spain.

hadrien01 4y ago
It depends entirely of the country. For example, Poland and Portugal have digital driver's licenses, but France and Germany do not.

helloworld11 4y ago

I can't stand this attitude. People who think like you on this do a lot to help move the surveillance society and the potential for turnkey repression forward endlessly. No evil reasons needed, but a constant stream of self absorbed platitudes of "oh but it's so convenient, I hope everyone else has to do it too, and make trivial things even easier for me". These of course remain blind to any perspective of how history has shown governments and criminal organizations using the ability to track everything for creating easy victims of others. No matter though right? As long as it saves you from having to carry a few ounces of wallet around because oh, it's such a "relic." Sooner or later basic privacy, anonymity and the freedoms that are bound to these can also become complete relics of the past, but I suppose that will be a relief, because so much will be convenient.