4 ms·

It's worth remembering that this is a study of de-transitioners, not of the trans community as a whole. Having read the study [with an open mind], you ought to

It's worth remembering that this is a study of de-transitioners, not of the trans community as a whole. Having read the study [with an open mind], you ought to remember the table on page ten which lists how the participants detransitioned. You'd remember that they detransitioned overwhelmingly by... wait for it... no longer taking their cross-sex hormones (95%) and returning to their previous pronouns (63%). This is a far cry from your moral panic about children being led to the surgeon's knife. Only 14% of the participants began hormonal detransition and only 9% began surgical detransition. Given that detransitioners are already a small minority of trans people, who are themselves already a small minority of society, this feels less like splitting hairs and more like splitting atoms. I simply cannot fathom how this study is enough for you to be spamming it to everyone. This study isn't spicy anti-trans statistical data. It's data that suggests that evaluation for medical transition needs to be improved. Indeed, as already mentioned, that's the explicit goal of the study... and yet you're here pretending like it's some gotcha moment.

slt2021 4y ago
So you do agree that there is a chance of medical mistake in diagnosing/prescribing Gender Dysphoria, just like medical mistakes happen with any other condition? And a lot of these mistakes happen due to social pressure (including pressure from medical professionals who should know better, but didnt't because opposing research is being canceled). >>Clinicians, partners, friends, and society were named as sources that applied pressure to transition, as seen in the following quotes: >> - My gender therapist acted like it [transition] was a panacea for everything; >> - [My] [d]octor pushed drugs and surgery at every visit >> - I was dating a trans woman and she framed our relationship in a way that was contingent on my being trans >> - A couple of later trans friends kept insisting that I needed to stop delaying things >> - [My] best friend told me repeatedly that it [transition] was best for me I dont deny that there is selection bias in Mrs. Littmann's research. But if I am parent and have only one child, I really dont care about percentage chances, and I simply dont want to play in this dumb lottery of wrongly identifying GD only to reverse it later. If current medical understanding is wrong, something needs to be done to improve medical approach. and current mainstream consensus doesn't help at all
- Defletter 4y ago
  Do I agree that healthcare can and does go wrong? Duh, yes. Do I think that it should therefore become a regular national news hot-topic for reactionaries to obsess about and start imposing bans/heavy regulation on that healthcare? No. If there are instances of malpractice from doctors, those instances should go to court. We needn't expect trans healthcare to be faultless before we allow it to exist.
  - slt2021 4y ago
    If it were only healthcare matter, it would not be such a big deal. Unfortunately this slides into ideological/political subject and current polarization of society doesn't help at all. Left wingers want to show off as a big LGBTQ allies and supporters, and any even slightly opposing opinion gets canceled fiercely. School teacher can counsel my kid regarding gender confusion and not tell me about it. This is wrong and violation of my parents rights. It is kinda becomes emotional and hard subject to reason logically. I support when adult gets the treatment they needed, but at the same time when it comes to my kids (who can be easily manipulated by public opinion) I want to keep my child away from mainstream propaganda that may sway my kid towards wrong route. Until they become adults and are free to choose themselves.
    - Defletter 4y ago
      Honestly, this whole problem sounds to me like parents being utterly unwilling to discuss gender with their children. Teachers wouldn't have such a supposed monopoly on this if kids felt comfortable talking to their parents. If your child came to you because they're questioning themselves, I sincerely hope you'd be there for them instead of freaking out about liberal propaganda. Kids and especially teenagers will question themselves... it's kind of the whole point of puberty. Are the people obsessing about this so old that they forgot what puberty was like? And people said the exact same stuff, verbatim, about gay people. Section 28 for example was a law passed in the UK in 1988 that reads eerily similar to Florida’s dubbed Don’t Say Gay Bill. Section 28 was literally passed in reaction to a Danish book called "Jenny Lives with Eric and Martin" where a young girl and her two dads do sordid things like having a birthday party and visiting the launderette. And British youngsters were immeasurably damaged by Section 28 and the effects remain even though it was repealed in 2004. Similarly, there were protests a few years ago of conservative parents who were """"concerned"""" that their children were being taught graphic gay sex when, in reality, children were merely being taught that some families have two mums or two dads. A lot of the puritanical moralism comes from conservatives unconsciously (or not) spreading ideologically framed, ambiguous statements. It’s like how you took the concept of teenagers seeking out that book in the adult section with that book “be[ing] on display to kids.” You made it sound worse than it was, so people interpret it as worse than it was, so it becomes a moral panic.

slt2021 4y ago

So you do agree that there is a chance of medical mistake in diagnosing/prescribing Gender Dysphoria, just like medical mistakes happen with any other condition? And a lot of these mistakes happen due to social pressure (including pressure from medical professionals who should know better, but didnt't because opposing research is being canceled). >>Clinicians, partners, friends, and society were named as sources that applied pressure to transition, as seen in the following quotes: >> - My gender therapist acted like it [transition] was a panacea for everything; >> - [My] [d]octor pushed drugs and surgery at every visit >> - I was dating a trans woman and she framed our relationship in a way that was contingent on my being trans >> - A couple of later trans friends kept insisting that I needed to stop delaying things >> - [My] best friend told me repeatedly that it [transition] was best for me I dont deny that there is selection bias in Mrs. Littmann's research. But if I am parent and have only one child, I really dont care about percentage chances, and I simply dont want to play in this dumb lottery of wrongly identifying GD only to reverse it later. If current medical understanding is wrong, something needs to be done to improve medical approach. and current mainstream consensus doesn't help at all

Defletter 4y ago
Do I agree that healthcare can and does go wrong? Duh, yes. Do I think that it should therefore become a regular national news hot-topic for reactionaries to obsess about and start imposing bans/heavy regulation on that healthcare? No. If there are instances of malpractice from doctors, those instances should go to court. We needn't expect trans healthcare to be faultless before we allow it to exist.
- slt2021 4y ago
  If it were only healthcare matter, it would not be such a big deal. Unfortunately this slides into ideological/political subject and current polarization of society doesn't help at all. Left wingers want to show off as a big LGBTQ allies and supporters, and any even slightly opposing opinion gets canceled fiercely. School teacher can counsel my kid regarding gender confusion and not tell me about it. This is wrong and violation of my parents rights. It is kinda becomes emotional and hard subject to reason logically. I support when adult gets the treatment they needed, but at the same time when it comes to my kids (who can be easily manipulated by public opinion) I want to keep my child away from mainstream propaganda that may sway my kid towards wrong route. Until they become adults and are free to choose themselves.
  - Defletter 4y ago
    Honestly, this whole problem sounds to me like parents being utterly unwilling to discuss gender with their children. Teachers wouldn't have such a supposed monopoly on this if kids felt comfortable talking to their parents. If your child came to you because they're questioning themselves, I sincerely hope you'd be there for them instead of freaking out about liberal propaganda. Kids and especially teenagers will question themselves... it's kind of the whole point of puberty. Are the people obsessing about this so old that they forgot what puberty was like? And people said the exact same stuff, verbatim, about gay people. Section 28 for example was a law passed in the UK in 1988 that reads eerily similar to Florida’s dubbed Don’t Say Gay Bill. Section 28 was literally passed in reaction to a Danish book called "Jenny Lives with Eric and Martin" where a young girl and her two dads do sordid things like having a birthday party and visiting the launderette. And British youngsters were immeasurably damaged by Section 28 and the effects remain even though it was repealed in 2004. Similarly, there were protests a few years ago of conservative parents who were """"concerned"""" that their children were being taught graphic gay sex when, in reality, children were merely being taught that some families have two mums or two dads. A lot of the puritanical moralism comes from conservatives unconsciously (or not) spreading ideologically framed, ambiguous statements. It’s like how you took the concept of teenagers seeking out that book in the adult section with that book “be[ing] on display to kids.” You made it sound worse than it was, so people interpret it as worse than it was, so it becomes a moral panic.