4 ms·

> There is no single narrative to explain the experiences of all individuals who detransition and we should take care to avoid painting this population with a b

> There is no single narrative to explain the experiences of all individuals who detransition and we should take care to avoid painting this population with a broad brush. > Findings about detransition should be used to improve our understanding of gender dysphoria and to better inform the processes of evaluation, counseling, and informed consent for individuals who are contemplating transition. Did your not read your own study?

slt2021 4y ago
author provides breakdown further, I encourage you to continue reading this paper [with an open mind]
- Defletter 4y ago
  I'll read it through [with an open mind] once you have. Since the conclusions you've drawn are thoroughly incongruous with the abstract and conclusion, I gather that you haven't, in fact, read it.
  - slt2021 4y ago
    from the same abstract you skipped over: >>Reasons for detransitioning were varied and included: .. 2) becoming more comfortable identifying as their natal sex (60.0%); so 60 out of 100 patients who gender transitioned were NOT in fact transgenders and were falsely led towards gender transition surgery >>The majority (55.0%) felt that they did not receive an adequate evaluation from a doctor or mental health professional before starting transition This matches the parents' pushback argument that gender transition is being prescribed and promoted left and right, which leads to medical mistakes
    - Defletter 4y ago
      It's worth remembering that this is a study of de-transitioners, not of the trans community as a whole. Having read the study [with an open mind], you ought to remember the table on page ten which lists how the participants detransitioned. You'd remember that they detransitioned overwhelmingly by... wait for it... no longer taking their cross-sex hormones (95%) and returning to their previous pronouns (63%). This is a far cry from your moral panic about children being led to the surgeon's knife. Only 14% of the participants began hormonal detransition and only 9% began surgical detransition. Given that detransitioners are already a small minority of trans people, who are themselves already a small minority of society, this feels less like splitting hairs and more like splitting atoms. I simply cannot fathom how this study is enough for you to be spamming it to everyone. This study isn't spicy anti-trans statistical data. It's data that suggests that evaluation for medical transition needs to be improved. Indeed, as already mentioned, that's the explicit goal of the study... and yet you're here pretending like it's some gotcha moment.
      - slt2021 4y ago
        So you do agree that there is a chance of medical mistake in diagnosing/prescribing Gender Dysphoria, just like medical mistakes happen with any other condition? And a lot of these mistakes happen due to social pressure (including pressure from medical professionals who should know better, but didnt't because opposing research is being canceled). >>Clinicians, partners, friends, and society were named as sources that applied pressure to transition, as seen in the following quotes: >> - My gender therapist acted like it [transition] was a panacea for everything; >> - [My] [d]octor pushed drugs and surgery at every visit >> - I was dating a trans woman and she framed our relationship in a way that was contingent on my being trans >> - A couple of later trans friends kept insisting that I needed to stop delaying things >> - [My] best friend told me repeatedly that it [transition] was best for me I dont deny that there is selection bias in Mrs. Littmann's research. But if I am parent and have only one child, I really dont care about percentage chances, and I simply dont want to play in this dumb lottery of wrongly identifying GD only to reverse it later. If current medical understanding is wrong, something needs to be done to improve medical approach. and current mainstream consensus doesn't help at all
        Defletter 4y ago
        Do I agree that healthcare can and does go wrong? Duh, yes. Do I think that it should therefore become a regular national news hot-topic for reactionaries to obsess about and start imposing bans/heavy regulation on that healthcare? No. If there are instances of malpractice from doctors, those instances should go to court. We needn't expect trans healthcare to be faultless before we allow it to exist.
        slt2021 4y ago
        If it were only healthcare matter, it would not be such a big deal. Unfortunately this slides into ideological/political subject and current polarization of society doesn't help at all. Left wingers want to show off as a big LGBTQ allies and supporters, and any even slightly opposing opinion gets canceled fiercely. School teacher can counsel my kid regarding gender confusion and not tell me about it. This is wrong and violation of my parents rights. It is kinda becomes emotional and hard subject to reason logically. I support when adult gets the treatment they needed, but at the same time when it comes to my kids (who can be easily manipulated by public opinion) I want to keep my child away from mainstream propaganda that may sway my kid towards wrong route. Until they become adults and are free to choose themselves.
spoils19 4y ago
> Did your not read your own study? This discourse is not helpful, please read the guidelines for commenting :> > Please don't comment on whether someone read an article. "Did you even read the article? It mentions that" can be shortened to "The article mentions that."
- Defletter 4y ago
  My apologies, from now on I'll only say that someone unintentionally mislead Parlia.. I mean, that their study actually said X, Y, and Z.

slt2021 4y ago

author provides breakdown further, I encourage you to continue reading this paper [with an open mind]

Defletter 4y ago
I'll read it through [with an open mind] once you have. Since the conclusions you've drawn are thoroughly incongruous with the abstract and conclusion, I gather that you haven't, in fact, read it.
- slt2021 4y ago
  from the same abstract you skipped over: >>Reasons for detransitioning were varied and included: .. 2) becoming more comfortable identifying as their natal sex (60.0%); so 60 out of 100 patients who gender transitioned were NOT in fact transgenders and were falsely led towards gender transition surgery >>The majority (55.0%) felt that they did not receive an adequate evaluation from a doctor or mental health professional before starting transition This matches the parents' pushback argument that gender transition is being prescribed and promoted left and right, which leads to medical mistakes
  - Defletter 4y ago
    It's worth remembering that this is a study of de-transitioners, not of the trans community as a whole. Having read the study [with an open mind], you ought to remember the table on page ten which lists how the participants detransitioned. You'd remember that they detransitioned overwhelmingly by... wait for it... no longer taking their cross-sex hormones (95%) and returning to their previous pronouns (63%). This is a far cry from your moral panic about children being led to the surgeon's knife. Only 14% of the participants began hormonal detransition and only 9% began surgical detransition. Given that detransitioners are already a small minority of trans people, who are themselves already a small minority of society, this feels less like splitting hairs and more like splitting atoms. I simply cannot fathom how this study is enough for you to be spamming it to everyone. This study isn't spicy anti-trans statistical data. It's data that suggests that evaluation for medical transition needs to be improved. Indeed, as already mentioned, that's the explicit goal of the study... and yet you're here pretending like it's some gotcha moment.
    - slt2021 4y ago
      So you do agree that there is a chance of medical mistake in diagnosing/prescribing Gender Dysphoria, just like medical mistakes happen with any other condition? And a lot of these mistakes happen due to social pressure (including pressure from medical professionals who should know better, but didnt't because opposing research is being canceled). >>Clinicians, partners, friends, and society were named as sources that applied pressure to transition, as seen in the following quotes: >> - My gender therapist acted like it [transition] was a panacea for everything; >> - [My] [d]octor pushed drugs and surgery at every visit >> - I was dating a trans woman and she framed our relationship in a way that was contingent on my being trans >> - A couple of later trans friends kept insisting that I needed to stop delaying things >> - [My] best friend told me repeatedly that it [transition] was best for me I dont deny that there is selection bias in Mrs. Littmann's research. But if I am parent and have only one child, I really dont care about percentage chances, and I simply dont want to play in this dumb lottery of wrongly identifying GD only to reverse it later. If current medical understanding is wrong, something needs to be done to improve medical approach. and current mainstream consensus doesn't help at all
      - Defletter 4y ago
        Do I agree that healthcare can and does go wrong? Duh, yes. Do I think that it should therefore become a regular national news hot-topic for reactionaries to obsess about and start imposing bans/heavy regulation on that healthcare? No. If there are instances of malpractice from doctors, those instances should go to court. We needn't expect trans healthcare to be faultless before we allow it to exist.
        slt2021 4y ago
        If it were only healthcare matter, it would not be such a big deal. Unfortunately this slides into ideological/political subject and current polarization of society doesn't help at all. Left wingers want to show off as a big LGBTQ allies and supporters, and any even slightly opposing opinion gets canceled fiercely. School teacher can counsel my kid regarding gender confusion and not tell me about it. This is wrong and violation of my parents rights. It is kinda becomes emotional and hard subject to reason logically. I support when adult gets the treatment they needed, but at the same time when it comes to my kids (who can be easily manipulated by public opinion) I want to keep my child away from mainstream propaganda that may sway my kid towards wrong route. Until they become adults and are free to choose themselves.

spoils19 4y ago

> Did your not read your own study? This discourse is not helpful, please read the guidelines for commenting :> > Please don't comment on whether someone read an article. "Did you even read the article? It mentions that" can be shortened to "The article mentions that."

Defletter 4y ago
My apologies, from now on I'll only say that someone unintentionally mislead Parlia.. I mean, that their study actually said X, Y, and Z.