4 ms·

> The other behaviours that they normalized and now all of us deal with are what they call ‘serial returns’ where you buy maybe one of everything and return wha

> The other behaviours that they normalized and now all of us deal with are what they call ‘serial returns’ where you buy maybe one of everything and return what you don’t want. At least for clothing, this behaviour is officially supported by Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html?nodeId=GCQDLMG7C2YEXSM4 https://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html?nodeId=...

loeg 4y ago
It’s the only way to buy clothing sight unseen on the internet. If you don’t want to sell sized goods on the internet, don’t, but otherwise people need to try multiple sizes and return some.
- rgmerk 4y ago
  Silca sells the odd bit of branded merch but the vast majority of their business isn't in clothing. They sell a variety of high-end bicycle accessories including pumps, bottle cages, fancy lubricants (including chains pre-treated with hot wax lubricant). It's quality stuff with a pricetag to match.
  - loeg 4y ago
    I’m familiar with Silca’s products (I have some of their wax) but this thread is more generally about shopping for clothing online.
- alpaca128 4y ago
  I wish we had a way to just enter all measurements and filter out clothes that won't fit. Clothing sizes are still in the middle ages, with the same unit meaning something different with each manufacturer and not everyone even uses the same units.
  - vladvasiliu 4y ago
    Oh man, it's even worse than that. I mainly buy Levi's jeans, model 511. A few years ago I needed a new pair, checked my size from my current pair, and ordered the exact same off Amazon. My old pair still fit, maybe even a tad big at the waist. Then, perusing the catalog, I figured I'd also spice things up a bit, and ordered a 501 in a color I don't usually wear, for variety. When I received them, the sizing was a complete joke. It was absolutely impossible for me to put on the 511. My upper thighs would not fit inside the jeans without pulling on them, and after that it was impossible to button them. The 501 was the opposite: much too big, could have probably went two sizes down. I sent them both back, ordered a single 511 one size above, which was, you guessed, too big. Frustrated, I sent them all back and went to my local brick and mortar store and ended up with a pair of 514s – one size below my regular one.
    - MezzoDelCammin 4y ago
      Oh, Levi's jeans fit is a subject of its own. I think I've currently got about 6 different pairs (few 501s, then some 541 and a "Commuter", whatever the number was back then). Waist 36 sometimes ends up tighter than 35 or even 34, depending on cut and the stretchiness of the fabric. Specially with Silca being a cycling company, I think a lot of people here will be all too familiar with the phenomenon of "chicken legs" and how to find a pair of trousers to fit them into :-)
      - vladvasiliu 4y ago
        > Specially with Silca being a cycling company, I think a lot of people here will be all too familiar with the phenomenon of "chicken legs" and how to find a pair of trousers to fit them into :-) I'm not really built like a cyclist, so I usually have the opposite problem when buying cycling shorts :) Although, to the point of this thread, I've found that actual sporting goods brands (as opposed to "lifestyle" or "sportswear", or whatever they're called) tend to stick to one set of measures. I used to love my Gore biking shorts, so when I was in the market for a pair of running shorts, and saw Gore made those too, I ordered the same size and fit was the same. I have similar experience with Decathlon, a French sports goods store, that also make their own products. Ditto for Nike, where my basketball shoes are the same size as my running shoes – bought several years apart.
  - someweirdperson 4y ago
    > I wish we had a way to just enter all measurements and filter out clothes that won't fit. Clothing sizes are still in the middle ages ... I would go one step further than just filtering. Production is usually still far too much manual labor (cheapest available). With significantly improved automation everything would change. Even just automating the cutting of cloth would allow to tailor to fit, not just standard sizes, with no significant increase in net effort. Combined with sewing in cheap parts of the world and any kind of returns policy it becomes a logistics nightmare of course. The solution is even higher automation.
    - 2143 4y ago
      I'm sceptical if you'd get the same craftsmanship when robots do the job. (And I'm not talking high-end clothes).
    - krisoft 4y ago
      > Even just automating the cutting of cloth would allow to tailor to fit, not just standard sizes, with no significant increase in net effort. I think you are seriously underestimating how big of a change in effort that would be. Just tracing and keeping track of a particular garment through the production would be a huge effort.
      - someweirdperson 4y ago
        > Just tracing and keeping track of a particular garment through the production would be a huge effort. For a robot/computer.
        krisoft 4y ago
        Not just for a robot/computer. Imagine that you have to make 500 shirts. Previously you can take the textile, cut out the right size pieces. Maybe 3 or 4 pieces per end product. After cutting you have large piles, other people sew together to finished shirts. These shirts go to a giant pile and get shipped to a warehouse. Now what changes if you have an orderbook of 500 shirts all with custom sizes? You (or a robot or whoever) cuts out the pieces for order number 1. You can’t just grab any lefts and sew them to any backs. You need to sew that specific left with that specific back. After cutting do you mark the pieces? If so how do you remove the marks later? If not how do you QC that there were no mixups? After a shirt is done how do you make sure it ends up with the right customer? These are all solveable of course. The thing I am disagreeing is that all you need is a robot to cut the pieces and then you can offer custom tailoring for little or no effort.
  - blfr 4y ago
    In Poland, a large shoe retailer eobuwie does this with their esize.me[1] service. You can go to one of their (or affiliated) stores, scan your feet, and then use the scan to purchase shoes online later. I only tried it once but it worked very well. Suggested a smaller size than I would have purchased and they fit perfectly. Clothes are probably significantly more difficult than shoes though. [1] https://www.esize.me/ https://www.esize.me/
    - isbvhodnvemrwvn 4y ago
      It didn't work for me at all. I used the machine three times and always got different results. That was 2 years ago so maybe they improved, but I was very disappointed, especially with heel width.
  - thirdsun 4y ago
    > with the same unit meaning something different with each manufacturer and not everyone even uses the same units. It's even worse. Some manufacturers have a single rough sizing table for an entire product category, like all shirts or pants. They will happily ignore different fittings and styles like slim fit, oversized, loose fit etc.
- throwaway290 4y ago
  I bought numerous pants, shirts, tees, hoodies, shoes of different makers from Amazon and other online shops over the years and I am yet to receive a single item that I would have to return or give to someone else because it doesn't fit, and I wear non-standard sizes (the reason I shop online). A little research and review-reading goes a long way.
runnerup 4y ago
This is the cost of removing brick-and-mortar facilities where customers can try out options. Companies save tons of money not needing to support outlets in every major city globally. Then they spend a bit more on returns. Getting rid of both will result in no sales because I'll shop at a competitor. I recently got a weightlifting coach and was required to buy specialized weightlifting shoes. I live in Houston which serves 7-8 million people, but there was nowhere in town to try on or buy any weightlifting shoe: - Nike Romaleos - Adidas Adipower - Rogue Do-win / Classic This is despite there being quite a few Nike and Adidas stores here - standalone, typical mall, and outlet malls. So I bought 3 sizes and am returning two sizes. For Silca, maybe they have 3 different pumps and there's no way for me to stop by a local REI / bike shop to try them out. Is it worth getting a portable pump and a garage pump or can I just get by with the portable? Who the fuck knows. But I can buy both and return one if the value isn't worth the price. Or Silca can put a store in Houston where I can try out the products. Want to reduce return fraud? Make customers bring back items to your local store where knowledgeable salespeople can inspect it at the time of return. My guess is that eating return fraud is a lot cheaper though.
- prmoustache 4y ago
  Silca do not have their own stores but they are distributed through regular brick and mortar shops too.
- pedalpete 4y ago
  Are you saying you bought and had 9 pairs of shoes (3 brands, 3 sizes) and are returning 8 because you weren't able to make a choice? Do you think about the environmental impact of shipping around all your crap because you can't figure out what size or brand to pick? The real option here is to pick a shoe, and pick a size. If the size doesn't fit, return it for the larger or smaller? If shipping is next day, or two day or whatever, can you really not wait that extra time? I get that the local stores don't stock specialty items, and you may think my comment is misguided, but I look at all the thousands of people who behave similar to you, and how much waste that creates.
  - runnerup 4y ago

loeg 4y ago

It’s the only way to buy clothing sight unseen on the internet. If you don’t want to sell sized goods on the internet, don’t, but otherwise people need to try multiple sizes and return some.

rgmerk 4y ago
Silca sells the odd bit of branded merch but the vast majority of their business isn't in clothing. They sell a variety of high-end bicycle accessories including pumps, bottle cages, fancy lubricants (including chains pre-treated with hot wax lubricant). It's quality stuff with a pricetag to match.
- loeg 4y ago
  I’m familiar with Silca’s products (I have some of their wax) but this thread is more generally about shopping for clothing online.
alpaca128 4y ago
I wish we had a way to just enter all measurements and filter out clothes that won't fit. Clothing sizes are still in the middle ages, with the same unit meaning something different with each manufacturer and not everyone even uses the same units.
- vladvasiliu 4y ago
  Oh man, it's even worse than that. I mainly buy Levi's jeans, model 511. A few years ago I needed a new pair, checked my size from my current pair, and ordered the exact same off Amazon. My old pair still fit, maybe even a tad big at the waist. Then, perusing the catalog, I figured I'd also spice things up a bit, and ordered a 501 in a color I don't usually wear, for variety. When I received them, the sizing was a complete joke. It was absolutely impossible for me to put on the 511. My upper thighs would not fit inside the jeans without pulling on them, and after that it was impossible to button them. The 501 was the opposite: much too big, could have probably went two sizes down. I sent them both back, ordered a single 511 one size above, which was, you guessed, too big. Frustrated, I sent them all back and went to my local brick and mortar store and ended up with a pair of 514s – one size below my regular one.
  - MezzoDelCammin 4y ago
    Oh, Levi's jeans fit is a subject of its own. I think I've currently got about 6 different pairs (few 501s, then some 541 and a "Commuter", whatever the number was back then). Waist 36 sometimes ends up tighter than 35 or even 34, depending on cut and the stretchiness of the fabric. Specially with Silca being a cycling company, I think a lot of people here will be all too familiar with the phenomenon of "chicken legs" and how to find a pair of trousers to fit them into :-)
    - vladvasiliu 4y ago
      > Specially with Silca being a cycling company, I think a lot of people here will be all too familiar with the phenomenon of "chicken legs" and how to find a pair of trousers to fit them into :-) I'm not really built like a cyclist, so I usually have the opposite problem when buying cycling shorts :) Although, to the point of this thread, I've found that actual sporting goods brands (as opposed to "lifestyle" or "sportswear", or whatever they're called) tend to stick to one set of measures. I used to love my Gore biking shorts, so when I was in the market for a pair of running shorts, and saw Gore made those too, I ordered the same size and fit was the same. I have similar experience with Decathlon, a French sports goods store, that also make their own products. Ditto for Nike, where my basketball shoes are the same size as my running shoes – bought several years apart.
- someweirdperson 4y ago
  > I wish we had a way to just enter all measurements and filter out clothes that won't fit. Clothing sizes are still in the middle ages ... I would go one step further than just filtering. Production is usually still far too much manual labor (cheapest available). With significantly improved automation everything would change. Even just automating the cutting of cloth would allow to tailor to fit, not just standard sizes, with no significant increase in net effort. Combined with sewing in cheap parts of the world and any kind of returns policy it becomes a logistics nightmare of course. The solution is even higher automation.
  - 2143 4y ago
    I'm sceptical if you'd get the same craftsmanship when robots do the job. (And I'm not talking high-end clothes).
  - krisoft 4y ago
    > Even just automating the cutting of cloth would allow to tailor to fit, not just standard sizes, with no significant increase in net effort. I think you are seriously underestimating how big of a change in effort that would be. Just tracing and keeping track of a particular garment through the production would be a huge effort.
    - someweirdperson 4y ago
      > Just tracing and keeping track of a particular garment through the production would be a huge effort. For a robot/computer.
      - krisoft 4y ago
        Not just for a robot/computer. Imagine that you have to make 500 shirts. Previously you can take the textile, cut out the right size pieces. Maybe 3 or 4 pieces per end product. After cutting you have large piles, other people sew together to finished shirts. These shirts go to a giant pile and get shipped to a warehouse. Now what changes if you have an orderbook of 500 shirts all with custom sizes? You (or a robot or whoever) cuts out the pieces for order number 1. You can’t just grab any lefts and sew them to any backs. You need to sew that specific left with that specific back. After cutting do you mark the pieces? If so how do you remove the marks later? If not how do you QC that there were no mixups? After a shirt is done how do you make sure it ends up with the right customer? These are all solveable of course. The thing I am disagreeing is that all you need is a robot to cut the pieces and then you can offer custom tailoring for little or no effort.
- blfr 4y ago
  In Poland, a large shoe retailer eobuwie does this with their esize.me[1] service. You can go to one of their (or affiliated) stores, scan your feet, and then use the scan to purchase shoes online later. I only tried it once but it worked very well. Suggested a smaller size than I would have purchased and they fit perfectly. Clothes are probably significantly more difficult than shoes though. [1] https://www.esize.me/ https://www.esize.me/
  - isbvhodnvemrwvn 4y ago
    It didn't work for me at all. I used the machine three times and always got different results. That was 2 years ago so maybe they improved, but I was very disappointed, especially with heel width.
- thirdsun 4y ago
  > with the same unit meaning something different with each manufacturer and not everyone even uses the same units. It's even worse. Some manufacturers have a single rough sizing table for an entire product category, like all shirts or pants. They will happily ignore different fittings and styles like slim fit, oversized, loose fit etc.
throwaway290 4y ago
I bought numerous pants, shirts, tees, hoodies, shoes of different makers from Amazon and other online shops over the years and I am yet to receive a single item that I would have to return or give to someone else because it doesn't fit, and I wear non-standard sizes (the reason I shop online). A little research and review-reading goes a long way.

runnerup 4y ago

This is the cost of removing brick-and-mortar facilities where customers can try out options. Companies save tons of money not needing to support outlets in every major city globally. Then they spend a bit more on returns. Getting rid of both will result in no sales because I'll shop at a competitor. I recently got a weightlifting coach and was required to buy specialized weightlifting shoes. I live in Houston which serves 7-8 million people, but there was nowhere in town to try on or buy any weightlifting shoe: - Nike Romaleos - Adidas Adipower - Rogue Do-win / Classic This is despite there being quite a few Nike and Adidas stores here - standalone, typical mall, and outlet malls. So I bought 3 sizes and am returning two sizes. For Silca, maybe they have 3 different pumps and there's no way for me to stop by a local REI / bike shop to try them out. Is it worth getting a portable pump and a garage pump or can I just get by with the portable? Who the fuck knows. But I can buy both and return one if the value isn't worth the price. Or Silca can put a store in Houston where I can try out the products. Want to reduce return fraud? Make customers bring back items to your local store where knowledgeable salespeople can inspect it at the time of return. My guess is that eating return fraud is a lot cheaper though.

prmoustache 4y ago
Silca do not have their own stores but they are distributed through regular brick and mortar shops too.
pedalpete 4y ago
Are you saying you bought and had 9 pairs of shoes (3 brands, 3 sizes) and are returning 8 because you weren't able to make a choice? Do you think about the environmental impact of shipping around all your crap because you can't figure out what size or brand to pick? The real option here is to pick a shoe, and pick a size. If the size doesn't fit, return it for the larger or smaller? If shipping is next day, or two day or whatever, can you really not wait that extra time? I get that the local stores don't stock specialty items, and you may think my comment is misguided, but I look at all the thousands of people who behave similar to you, and how much waste that creates.
- runnerup 4y ago