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The number of logical fallacies at play are impressive, however I would like to address a couple of points >>I find that people on HN frequently fail to unders

The number of logical fallacies at play are impressive, however I would like to address a couple of points >>I find that people on HN frequently fail to understand that the law is a carefully crafted work by tens of thousands of professionals over centuries, that they almost cannot actually upgrade with a hot take. Seems like you have a rather rose colored view, and fall into a Fallacy Of Expertise to believe that because the law was "crafted" over many years by "professionals" that is somehow makes it infallible, or correct, or anything other than what is is in reality. Which in reality the law is a very flawed patchwork reactionary policies, regulations, rulings, and statutes all crafted by imperfect people many of which did not and do not have "the best interests" of the public in mind when they crafted them, instead have personal power, ego, or personal wealth at the center of their rational for invoking the regulation, ruling or statute into existence I find it concerning that one would have such reverence for a clearly flawed, abusive, and often unethical institution such as "the law", there is nothing more unjust than the laws the come from "do-gooders" steeped false philanthropy attempting to tell us all what is best for us... What ever the noble origins (if there ever was any) in "the law" it has clearly been perverted by greed, ego, power, and false philanthropy >"it's authoritarian hypocrisy that i can't use an unregulated gambling website which failed for eight years to follow the agreement that it made with the government" It is authoritarian that one would need to seek permission from the government to run a website like PredictIT in the first place.

JohnHaugeland 4y ago
> The number of logical fallacies at play are impressive Stephen Bond says it better than I can: https://laurencetennant.com/bonds/bdksucks.html https://laurencetennant.com/bonds/bdksucks.html . > Seems like you have a rather rose colored view Sorry, no, the law isn't my "view," it's just the law. . > and fall into a Fallacy Of Expertise to believe that because the law was "crafted" over many years by "professionals" that is somehow makes it infallible I didn't say anything like this. I'm not sure why you think I did. What I actually said was "people with no legal education who didn't even look up the original design aren't likely to understand things well enough to improve it." People with actual legal educations who understand the design, of course, can. We make improvements every day. . > I find it concerning that one would have such reverence for a clearly flawed, abusive, and often unethical institution such as "the law" I don't have any such reverence. You're criticizing things I never said and which do not correctly model my viewpoint. I said "you guys didn't even read what this is about, why do you think you're improving it" and somehow from that you heard "the people who wrote this are perfect and flawless." . > there is nothing more unjust than the laws the come from "do-gooders" steeped false philanthropy (blinks) What? These laws don't come from philanthropy. They mostly come from punishing casinos for cheating people. Nobody said anything about noble do-gooders or philanthropy. . > It is authoritarian that one would need to seek permission from the government to run a website like PredictIT in the first place. Well, no, that's ... that's just what government does, is make rules.
- phpisthebest 4y ago
  >Well, no, that's ... that's just what government does, is make rules. This right here highlights the core of the issue, this is exactly whey authoritarians like yourself, and non-authoritarians like myself have a hard time communicating You can not fathom why anyone would question government authority, and I can not fathom why anyone would not question government authority. Saying "that's just what government does, is make rules. " is an authoritarian position as well To non-authoritarians, government authority has limits, its ability to "make rules" is narrowly defined to a very very limited scope. To non-authoritarians the law should be simply the collective organization of individual rights, and the law shall have no authority beyond that which the individual would otherwise have the authority, the government is to do only what the individual forces have a natural and lawful right to do. To non-authoritarians any law, regulation, or purpose of government that creeps beyond that is unethical. >>People with actual legal educations who understand the design, of course, can. We make improvements every day. This presumes that the original design is desirable and something that should be preserved, it also presumes that there was an "original design" and that everyone that has meddled in the law since has taken the "original design" to heart and faithfully applied that to all future changes, both are provably and demonstrably false assumptions especially in the context of the US legal system which is been fundamentally altered from the original design to no longer have any real connection to that original design >These laws don't come from philanthropy Almost all regulatory agencies and the regulations they produce are done so under the premise of philanthropy. I fail to see how these regulations are any different.
  - JoshCole 4y ago
    He writes: "it's authoritarian hypocrisy that i can't use an unregulated gambling website which failed for eight years to follow the agreement that it made with the government". You didn't write this, but he quotes around it. We know that he knows that you didn't write this. He quotes the text he paraphrases. So what follows is now his understanding of you. I want to draw attention to one part of the text. He uses a lower-case "i" rather than an upper-case "I". This means that in his understanding he feels two things about you: 1. You are less than a full human. 2. You are too stupid to spell correctly. Both of these things are contradicted by your own writing. It is clearly visible that you tend to spell things correctly and that you have a sense of self. No one reasonable would contest these things. Which means John isn't being reasonable. Is it any wonder then that in his next word, he laughs at his caricature of you? No amount of intellect on your part will be capable of persuading him. You are not an intellect to him. You are a thing to laugh at. He already distorts your points in order to allow himself the liberty of attacking his fantasy of your idiocy. Perchance lets say you make the wisest point possible. Something so beautiful that God himself would weep for the brilliance of it. All just men who see it would smile. Ballrooms of people who heard it would stand and clap. We have a good idea of how it is that John would respond to such insight. He would quote his version of you. Then he would laugh at the "it".

JohnHaugeland 4y ago

> The number of logical fallacies at play are impressive Stephen Bond says it better than I can: https://laurencetennant.com/bonds/bdksucks.html https://laurencetennant.com/bonds/bdksucks.html . > Seems like you have a rather rose colored view Sorry, no, the law isn't my "view," it's just the law. . > and fall into a Fallacy Of Expertise to believe that because the law was "crafted" over many years by "professionals" that is somehow makes it infallible I didn't say anything like this. I'm not sure why you think I did. What I actually said was "people with no legal education who didn't even look up the original design aren't likely to understand things well enough to improve it." People with actual legal educations who understand the design, of course, can. We make improvements every day. . > I find it concerning that one would have such reverence for a clearly flawed, abusive, and often unethical institution such as "the law" I don't have any such reverence. You're criticizing things I never said and which do not correctly model my viewpoint. I said "you guys didn't even read what this is about, why do you think you're improving it" and somehow from that you heard "the people who wrote this are perfect and flawless." . > there is nothing more unjust than the laws the come from "do-gooders" steeped false philanthropy (blinks) What? These laws don't come from philanthropy. They mostly come from punishing casinos for cheating people. Nobody said anything about noble do-gooders or philanthropy. . > It is authoritarian that one would need to seek permission from the government to run a website like PredictIT in the first place. Well, no, that's ... that's just what government does, is make rules.

phpisthebest 4y ago
>Well, no, that's ... that's just what government does, is make rules. This right here highlights the core of the issue, this is exactly whey authoritarians like yourself, and non-authoritarians like myself have a hard time communicating You can not fathom why anyone would question government authority, and I can not fathom why anyone would not question government authority. Saying "that's just what government does, is make rules. " is an authoritarian position as well To non-authoritarians, government authority has limits, its ability to "make rules" is narrowly defined to a very very limited scope. To non-authoritarians the law should be simply the collective organization of individual rights, and the law shall have no authority beyond that which the individual would otherwise have the authority, the government is to do only what the individual forces have a natural and lawful right to do. To non-authoritarians any law, regulation, or purpose of government that creeps beyond that is unethical. >>People with actual legal educations who understand the design, of course, can. We make improvements every day. This presumes that the original design is desirable and something that should be preserved, it also presumes that there was an "original design" and that everyone that has meddled in the law since has taken the "original design" to heart and faithfully applied that to all future changes, both are provably and demonstrably false assumptions especially in the context of the US legal system which is been fundamentally altered from the original design to no longer have any real connection to that original design >These laws don't come from philanthropy Almost all regulatory agencies and the regulations they produce are done so under the premise of philanthropy. I fail to see how these regulations are any different.
- JoshCole 4y ago
  He writes: "it's authoritarian hypocrisy that i can't use an unregulated gambling website which failed for eight years to follow the agreement that it made with the government". You didn't write this, but he quotes around it. We know that he knows that you didn't write this. He quotes the text he paraphrases. So what follows is now his understanding of you. I want to draw attention to one part of the text. He uses a lower-case "i" rather than an upper-case "I". This means that in his understanding he feels two things about you: 1. You are less than a full human. 2. You are too stupid to spell correctly. Both of these things are contradicted by your own writing. It is clearly visible that you tend to spell things correctly and that you have a sense of self. No one reasonable would contest these things. Which means John isn't being reasonable. Is it any wonder then that in his next word, he laughs at his caricature of you? No amount of intellect on your part will be capable of persuading him. You are not an intellect to him. You are a thing to laugh at. He already distorts your points in order to allow himself the liberty of attacking his fantasy of your idiocy. Perchance lets say you make the wisest point possible. Something so beautiful that God himself would weep for the brilliance of it. All just men who see it would smile. Ballrooms of people who heard it would stand and clap. We have a good idea of how it is that John would respond to such insight. He would quote his version of you. Then he would laugh at the "it".