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Thankfully EU and UK force companies to accept returns within 14 days of purchase(delivery to the customer in fact) for anything sold "remotely"(through interne

Thankfully EU and UK force companies to accept returns within 14 days of purchase(delivery to the customer in fact) for anything sold "remotely"(through internet, phone, by post.....anything where the customer couldn't inspect the item before buying) so companies cannot try to pull this nonsense like here. Refund only for in-store credit? I sympathize with the issues of fraud, but that's not an acceptable return policy for any company selling anything on the internet.

Rebelgecko 4y ago
How common is similar fraud in the UK and EU?
- netr0ute 4y ago
  It may or may not be similar, but the sellers have to suck it up either way.
anonAndOn 4y ago
Thankfully the US doesn't force small businesses to run their business according to lawmakers' preferences for return policies. If a prospective customer doesn't like the return policy they are free to spend their money elsewhere and the market will decide whether the policy is good for business.
- gambiting 4y ago
  How has the "market will decide" worked out for American society over the decades?
- 2143 4y ago
  On the one hand your country is so great they don't force small businesses to run their business according to lawmakers' preferences for return policies. On the other hand your own citizens scam the businesses over there. You're in between a rock and a hard place. As long as people have the attitude to commit fraud, they would. Maybe it's time to take a few steps back and try to understand why people do this?
  - tekknik 4y ago
    So you’re trying to regulate morality?
googlryas 4y ago
Is the idea that companies should just eat an ever increasing proportion of fraud? I'm thankful that a blunt policy isn't enforced on companies where I'm from - as long as I know what the return policy is, I'm fine to make the decision whether it is acceptable for me or not. The result of that policy will probably just be that European companies are under more fraud pressure and will go out of business sooner than companies that have more tools to combat fraud.
- netr0ute 4y ago
  If those companies go out of business, then ones willing to follow the rules will fill in the gaping void. :)
  - jonas21 4y ago
    And they'll charge twice as much for everything to make up for the cost of fraud.
    - netr0ute 4y ago
      Then cheaper ones will fill in the gaping void, and they still have to play by the rules too. This isn't the car business where cost of entry is high.
  - barry-cotter 4y ago
    Or the business will become unprofitable and no one will do it.
    - netr0ute 4y ago
      Where will the customers go to get their products?
      - notch656a 4y ago
        The black market, where the sellers won't give two fucks about the law and they'll force you to pay with something irreversible like cash or crypto.
nrp 4y ago
Policies like that harm both dishonest companies and honest customers. Honest customers end up needing to pay more to cover the cost of fraud from dishonest customers. We voluntarily have a 30-day return policy anyway instead of the required 14-day in the EU, but a lot of what the interviewee brings up rings painfully true.
- notch656a 4y ago
  I can't imagine 30 days makes much difference than 14 days from the perspective of a fraudster. Assuming they meant to do the fraud anyway, they probably want as fast turn around time as possible.
gaius_baltar 4y ago
Same thing here in Brazil, but for 7 days. That's a law from 1990, written when "remote buy" mean buying stuff by phone or catalog, but also generically written to allow future technologies. That's up for almost 32 years and have neither prevented online selling from happening nor made stuff unusually expensive nor made the e-commerce environment unprofitable. I have returned items twice in the last five or so years (one was an obvious packaging error and for the other I'm was never sure if it was an innocent mistake or if the seller tried to scam me ... but the law worked as intended). And I buy online a lot and have no reason to believe other people's experiences are too much different from mine. It just seems the law worked in a societal level. But I always try to be safe on my side: when receiving expensive products, I always record the unboxing in a full Dogme 95 style, filming from the labels on the sealed box down to serial numbers on the product. I never actually needed to use any of these videos, but if I got scammed for real I will have enough evidence for a lawsuit and stand my ground in the card company questions my chargeback.
minutemad 4y ago
> Refund only for in-store credit? They changed their policy, but this won't prevent chargebacks. Anyone in the US who buys online with a credit card basically has up to 90 or even 180 day free returns. They just need to say the magic words. Product misrepresented/defective, merchant won't respond, or I don't recognize the charge. For example, they can poke a hole in the shirt they want to return and do it 1000% legally.
- tekknik 4y ago
  > Anyone in the US who buys online with a credit card basically has up to 90 or even 180 day free returns. Except the average consumer rarely reverses charges. Someone doing this regularly is going to stand out and will get legal attention. > For example, they can poke a hole in the shirt they want to return and do it 1000% legally. Except now they’ve damaged the good. Will they wear the shirt with the hole?

Rebelgecko 4y ago

How common is similar fraud in the UK and EU?

netr0ute 4y ago
It may or may not be similar, but the sellers have to suck it up either way.

anonAndOn 4y ago

Thankfully the US doesn't force small businesses to run their business according to lawmakers' preferences for return policies. If a prospective customer doesn't like the return policy they are free to spend their money elsewhere and the market will decide whether the policy is good for business.

gambiting 4y ago
How has the "market will decide" worked out for American society over the decades?
2143 4y ago
On the one hand your country is so great they don't force small businesses to run their business according to lawmakers' preferences for return policies. On the other hand your own citizens scam the businesses over there. You're in between a rock and a hard place. As long as people have the attitude to commit fraud, they would. Maybe it's time to take a few steps back and try to understand why people do this?
- tekknik 4y ago
  So you’re trying to regulate morality?

googlryas 4y ago

Is the idea that companies should just eat an ever increasing proportion of fraud? I'm thankful that a blunt policy isn't enforced on companies where I'm from - as long as I know what the return policy is, I'm fine to make the decision whether it is acceptable for me or not. The result of that policy will probably just be that European companies are under more fraud pressure and will go out of business sooner than companies that have more tools to combat fraud.

netr0ute 4y ago
If those companies go out of business, then ones willing to follow the rules will fill in the gaping void. :)
- jonas21 4y ago
  And they'll charge twice as much for everything to make up for the cost of fraud.
  - netr0ute 4y ago
    Then cheaper ones will fill in the gaping void, and they still have to play by the rules too. This isn't the car business where cost of entry is high.
- barry-cotter 4y ago
  Or the business will become unprofitable and no one will do it.
  - netr0ute 4y ago
    Where will the customers go to get their products?
    - notch656a 4y ago
      The black market, where the sellers won't give two fucks about the law and they'll force you to pay with something irreversible like cash or crypto.

nrp 4y ago

Policies like that harm both dishonest companies and honest customers. Honest customers end up needing to pay more to cover the cost of fraud from dishonest customers. We voluntarily have a 30-day return policy anyway instead of the required 14-day in the EU, but a lot of what the interviewee brings up rings painfully true.

notch656a 4y ago
I can't imagine 30 days makes much difference than 14 days from the perspective of a fraudster. Assuming they meant to do the fraud anyway, they probably want as fast turn around time as possible.

gaius_baltar 4y ago

Same thing here in Brazil, but for 7 days. That's a law from 1990, written when "remote buy" mean buying stuff by phone or catalog, but also generically written to allow future technologies. That's up for almost 32 years and have neither prevented online selling from happening nor made stuff unusually expensive nor made the e-commerce environment unprofitable. I have returned items twice in the last five or so years (one was an obvious packaging error and for the other I'm was never sure if it was an innocent mistake or if the seller tried to scam me ... but the law worked as intended). And I buy online a lot and have no reason to believe other people's experiences are too much different from mine. It just seems the law worked in a societal level. But I always try to be safe on my side: when receiving expensive products, I always record the unboxing in a full Dogme 95 style, filming from the labels on the sealed box down to serial numbers on the product. I never actually needed to use any of these videos, but if I got scammed for real I will have enough evidence for a lawsuit and stand my ground in the card company questions my chargeback.

minutemad 4y ago

> Refund only for in-store credit? They changed their policy, but this won't prevent chargebacks. Anyone in the US who buys online with a credit card basically has up to 90 or even 180 day free returns. They just need to say the magic words. Product misrepresented/defective, merchant won't respond, or I don't recognize the charge. For example, they can poke a hole in the shirt they want to return and do it 1000% legally.

tekknik 4y ago
> Anyone in the US who buys online with a credit card basically has up to 90 or even 180 day free returns. Except the average consumer rarely reverses charges. Someone doing this regularly is going to stand out and will get legal attention. > For example, they can poke a hole in the shirt they want to return and do it 1000% legally. Except now they’ve damaged the good. Will they wear the shirt with the hole?