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LLVM and Clang (I’m assuming you’re referring to these based on timing) are not Apple’s. Both have been under the LLVM Developer Group from inception, and LLVM

LLVM and Clang (I’m assuming you’re referring to these based on timing) are not Apple’s. Both have been under the LLVM Developer Group from inception, and LLVM existed for many years before Apple hired one of the lead devs. While it’s true that Lattner worked for Apple while he created Clang and that his personal contributions were probably biased, it’s always been an outside of Apple project with independent contributors.

GeekyBear 4y ago
LLVM used GCC C as a front end. Clang was an Apple project, since GCC wasn't designed to integrate into an IDE like Xcode. >One of Clang's main goals is to provide a library-based architecture, so that the compiler could interoperate with other tools that interact with source code, such as integrated development environments (IDE). In contrast, GCC works in a compile-link-debug workflow; integrating it with other tools is not always easy. For instance, GCC uses a step called fold that is key to the overall compile process, which has the side effect of translating the code tree into a form that looks unlike the original source code. If an error is found during or after the fold step, it can be difficult to translate that back into one location in the original source. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clang#Background https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clang#Background Lattner gave a tech talk at Google introducing LLVM 2.0 and explaining some of Apple's rational for creating Clang. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VeRaLPupGks https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VeRaLPupGks
- deaddodo 4y ago
  I said it was created by him while he was at Apple: > While it’s true that Lattner worked for Apple while he created Clang and that his personal contributions were probably biased But it wasn’t silo’d into Apple and then released to the open source field, it was created as an open source project under the LLVM Developer Group from it’s inception. So yes, his contributions and goals were to make it targeted for Apple’s needs; but there were plenty of independent contributors that were focused on just making it a good C/C++ compiler front-end for LLVM and were more focused on making it a general competitor to GCC. It would be more accurate to refer to is as an Apple sponsored project.
hinkley 4y ago
Hacker News gonna Hacker News. I could explain it but I don't have the energy to respond to a gotcha today. This has nothing to do with the conversation in the grandparent or the whole thread really.
- deaddodo 4y ago
  It’s OK to be wrong. Just don’t spread your mistruths.
  - junofan 4y ago
    You forgot about the Swift compiler ;) which did have a lot of bugs to fix!
    - hinkley 4y ago
      <touches side of nose>
  - hinkley 4y ago
    > It’s OK to be wrong. It sure is. Especially when you nerdsnipe yourself and try to drag a conversation with you. > Just don’t spread your mistruths. You are very invested in pretty much nothing at all. What mistruths am I spreading? That Apple appreciated people fixing bugs that affected them? Oh. No.

GeekyBear 4y ago

LLVM used GCC C as a front end. Clang was an Apple project, since GCC wasn't designed to integrate into an IDE like Xcode. >One of Clang's main goals is to provide a library-based architecture, so that the compiler could interoperate with other tools that interact with source code, such as integrated development environments (IDE). In contrast, GCC works in a compile-link-debug workflow; integrating it with other tools is not always easy. For instance, GCC uses a step called fold that is key to the overall compile process, which has the side effect of translating the code tree into a form that looks unlike the original source code. If an error is found during or after the fold step, it can be difficult to translate that back into one location in the original source. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clang#Background https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clang#Background Lattner gave a tech talk at Google introducing LLVM 2.0 and explaining some of Apple's rational for creating Clang. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VeRaLPupGks https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VeRaLPupGks

deaddodo 4y ago
I said it was created by him while he was at Apple: > While it’s true that Lattner worked for Apple while he created Clang and that his personal contributions were probably biased But it wasn’t silo’d into Apple and then released to the open source field, it was created as an open source project under the LLVM Developer Group from it’s inception. So yes, his contributions and goals were to make it targeted for Apple’s needs; but there were plenty of independent contributors that were focused on just making it a good C/C++ compiler front-end for LLVM and were more focused on making it a general competitor to GCC. It would be more accurate to refer to is as an Apple sponsored project.

hinkley 4y ago

Hacker News gonna Hacker News. I could explain it but I don't have the energy to respond to a gotcha today. This has nothing to do with the conversation in the grandparent or the whole thread really.

deaddodo 4y ago
It’s OK to be wrong. Just don’t spread your mistruths.
- junofan 4y ago
  You forgot about the Swift compiler ;) which did have a lot of bugs to fix!
  - hinkley 4y ago
    <touches side of nose>
- hinkley 4y ago
  > It’s OK to be wrong. It sure is. Especially when you nerdsnipe yourself and try to drag a conversation with you. > Just don’t spread your mistruths. You are very invested in pretty much nothing at all. What mistruths am I spreading? That Apple appreciated people fixing bugs that affected them? Oh. No.